11% Slip with locked single disc

[BEATAV8]

Well I tried locking my Vigilante single disc this weekend.

Previously: ~18% slip unlocked (6000RPM @ 125.6 on 28" tire)
This weekend: ~11% slip locked (5700RPM @ 125)

Car has been running 10.70-11.00 @ 125 with relatively soft launches.

Drops 600 RPM on shifts
Drops 300 RPM when it locks @ ~92MPH
Stalls ~2000RPM 0 boost and ~3600RPM 15 PSI boost (does this make sense or am I reading my data wrong?)

I'm thinking it's just a tad too loose for my turbo. The double ball bearing 6776 is spooling really fast with this converter.
I'm gonna talk to them and see if they will tighten it up a bit and ask if they can upgrade my unit to a multi-disc.

What do you guys think I could expect from tightening it up a couple hundred RPM? Will I see the un-locked RPM come down by a couple hundred RPM on the big end? Will my shifts see the drops of 800 RPM instead of 600 RPM?

 

[Blazer406]

IMHO... you are making more than enough power to run thru that converter..... You will definately feel a difference in the locking when you go to a multi-disc. I have a 5 disc in mine..... they do make som noise idling in park or neutral.... but the noise all but goes away in gear...

 

[Chuck Leeper]

"Previously: ~18% slip unlocked (6000RPM @ 125.6 on 28" tire)
This weekend: ~11% slip locked (5700RPM @ 125)"

If the engine has the "steam" to run 125.6, and you remove 300rpm of slip, I would think that it should pick up MPH, when locking. [be it a 300, or a 800rpm drop.]
Dropping MPH w/ a more "efficient" driveline, raises a ??, as to why.

 

[wickedtt]

Well I tried locking my Vigilante single disc this weekend.

Previously: ~18% slip unlocked (6000RPM @ 125.6 on 28" tire)
This weekend: ~11% slip locked (5700RPM @ 125)

Car has been running 10.70-11.00 @ 125 with relatively soft launches.

Drops 600 RPM on shifts
Drops 300 RPM when it locks @ ~92MPH
Stalls ~2000RPM 0 boost and ~3600RPM 15 PSI boost (does this make sense or am I reading my data wrong?)

I'm thinking it's just a tad too loose for my turbo. The double ball bearing 6776 is spooling really fast with this converter.
I'm gonna talk to them and see if they will tighten it up a bit and ask if they can upgrade my unit to a multi-disc.

What do you guys think I could expect from tightening it up a couple hundred RPM? Will I see the un-locked RPM come down by a couple hundred RPM on the big end? Will my shifts see the drops of 800 RPM instead of 600 RPM?

What stalll speed is that Vig or what Pump # is in it? How old is it and how many wot lock's on it?

 

[BEATAV8]

"Previously: ~18% slip unlocked (6000RPM @ 125.6 on 28" tire)
This weekend: ~11% slip locked (5700RPM @ 125)"

If the engine has the "steam" to run 125.6, and you remove 300rpm of slip, I would think that it should pick up MPH, when locking. [be it a 300, or a 800rpm drop.]
Dropping MPH w/ a more "efficient" driveline, raises a ??, as to why.

Serious 30mph headwind on the locked 5700 / 125 mph pass. Sorry forgot to mention that before... I was disappointed in the MPH but the wind was really nasty.

 

[BEATAV8]

What stalll speed is that Vig or what Pump # is in it? How old is it and how many wot lock's on it?

It's a 32-3400 advertised stall. Only 2 WOT locks on it (both yesterday). It's about 1 year old and has ~1000 miles on it.

 

[bison]

It's a 32-3400 advertised stall. Only 2 WOT locks on it (both yesterday). It's about 1 year old and has ~1000 miles on it.

I dont think you will be able to hit your goals with that converter. Your driving through it hard. You say it spools fast with the 2000 at zero vacuum/boost? Id think it would suck with that. Ive seen stock 12" converters stall higher. A multi-disc would help but ive seen a lot of slip while running one unlocked. Tightening a converter so it stalls less down low wont effect the top end too much in this situation. Id look into a PTC non locking unit with a billet stator. They seem to be working really well in everyones car who tries one. Slip will vbe under 5% with one and id bet that you would gain down low also.

 

[BEATAV8]

I dont think you will be able to hit your goals with that converter. Your driving through it hard. You say it spools fast with the 2000 at zero vacuum/boost? Id think it would suck with that. Ive seen stock 12" converters stall higher. A multi-disc would help but ive seen a lot of slip while running one unlocked. Tightening a converter so it stalls less down low wont effect the top end too much in this situation. Id look into a PTC non locking unit with a billet stator. They seem to be working really well in everyones car who tries one. Slip will vbe under 5% with one and id bet that you would gain down low also.

I have 3 files so far from track runs and it looks like it is transitioning from vacuum to boost right around 2000 RPM. (1800 in one file, 2200 in another, 2000 in another) It is surprising. I remember my old 12" club converter would go to ~3000 at 0 boost and a PT54. Could be this is something different to expect from double ball bearing turbo?
Check it out:

The PTC is definitely on my list, but I'm thinking I'm gonna give the Vig one more shot with a re-stall and multi disc upgrade (Jimmy says PI will do it). If it doesn't perform I figure I can always stuff it into my wife's 12 sec car and swap in the PTC. Unfortunately I won't be reporting back until spring

Will the multi-disc really give 0% slip? Seems to me if it slips at all it will toast before too long! If that's gonna happen I might as well go with the PTC and not screw around, eh?

 

[Turbo1dr]

I have

Post the rest of your combination please.

 

[BEATAV8]

Post the rest of your combination please.

109 block / stock crank / stock rods / diamond pistons / balanced assy / 210-210 roller / ported iron heads / ported stock intake / cometics / 70mm throttle / TA headers / 6776RH turbo / 3" THDP / PTE front mount / PTE upper / RJC plate / 75lb inj / extender extreme chip / translator plus / 4" MAF / SMC dual nozzle methanol / 3" single exhaust / Jimmy's trans / stock rear end / 28" tire

100 octane Sunoco. 19 deg timing. 27-28 PSI boost. AFR=11.3:1

 

[TurboBob]

post that log, but I you need to look at the RPM here, where it levels off.

Or, unhook the wastegate rod and try it again.....

At 0 psi, your vigilante is probably closer to 2400-2500.

see if you can get a 5psi stall test as well, as this seems to be where most converters are rated.

Bob

 

[bison]

109 block / stock crank / stock rods / diamond pistons / balanced assy / 210-210 roller / ported iron heads / ported stock intake / cometics / 70mm throttle / TA headers / 6776RH turbo / 3" THDP / PTE front mount / PTE upper / RJC plate / 75lb inj / extender extreme chip / translator plus / 4" MAF / SMC dual nozzle methanol / 3" single exhaust / Jimmy's trans / stock rear end / 28" tire

100 octane Sunoco. 19 deg timing. 27-28 PSI boost. AFR=11.3:1

Id throw some timing at it next time out.

 

[bison]

Will the multi-disc really give 0% slip? Seems to me if it slips at all it will toast before too long! If that's gonna happen I might as well go with the PTC and not screw around, eh?

It will give close to zero slip or none. Maybe a couple tenths of a % but thats it.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

I sent my single back to Precision for the multi, I think it was $350 for the upgrade, could be wrong though.

You are definitely beyond the singles lock up effectiveness and I bet Precision would say that they don't recommend too many more WOT lock ups with your power.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

The PTC is definitely on my list, but I'm thinking I'm gonna give the Vig one more shot with a re-stall and multi disc upgrade (Jimmy says PI will do it). If it doesn't perform I figure I can always stuff it into my wife's 12 sec car and swap in the PTC. Unfortunately I won't be reporting back until spring

Will the multi-disc really give 0% slip? Seems to me if it slips at all it will toast before too long! If that's gonna happen I might as well go with the PTC and not screw around, eh?

I had one racer swap from the 5 disk Vig to a 9.5 non lock and rpm at the finish line was only 50-100 rpm higher than the 5 disk locked.

 

[BEATAV8]

Id throw some timing at it next time out.

I'm sneaking up on it as I go.. last time it was tickling the knock sensor 0.5-0.7 degrees a few times in 3rd. I'm going to increase the methanol flow to tame that. As it is now I can't get it to bog or load up from meth over-flow at WOT, so there should be room for more nozzle area.

 

[TurboDave]

Well I tried locking my Vigilante single disc this weekend.

Previously: ~18% slip unlocked (6000RPM @ 125.6 on 28" tire)
This weekend: ~11% slip locked (5700RPM @ 125)

Car has been running 10.70-11.00 @ 125 with relatively soft launches.

Drops 600 RPM on shifts
Drops 300 RPM when it locks @ ~92MPH
Stalls ~2000RPM 0 boost and ~3600RPM 15 PSI boost (does this make sense or am I reading my data wrong?)

I'm thinking it's just a tad too loose for my turbo. The double ball bearing 6776 is spooling really fast with this converter.
I'm gonna talk to them and see if they will tighten it up a bit and ask if they can upgrade my unit to a multi-disc.

What do you guys think I could expect from tightening it up a couple hundred RPM? Will I see the un-locked RPM come down by a couple hundred RPM on the big end? Will my shifts see the drops of 800 RPM instead of 600 RPM?

11% seems a little high, but not really surprising. A single disc converter (even vigilante) just aren't designed to handle much in the way of WOT lockups, not for long anyway. Especially at your power level!!

Regardless of the claims a single disc (that's barely more than an inch wide) just insn't going to hold that kind of horse power on the big end.
That's what multi discs were designed for.

I've got one of their old 7 disc models. It yields a good bone jarring 500 rpm drop when it locks, even stiffer than a good gear change.
I've been beating the snot out of it for almost 10 years now, and it's still performing like new. 0.3% slip up at the 100 mph mark locked.
But I'm only running 118 through the quarter, so maybe I'm not making enough power to "break" it.

WOT lockups? multi disc is the only way to keep the power where it belongs and not going up in heat loss.

 

[BEATAV8]

11% seems a little high, but not really surprising. A single disc converter (even vigilante) just aren't designed to handle much in the way of WOT lockups, not for long anyway. Especially at your power level!!

Yup pretty brutal eh? It was really just a test to see what would happen.

 

[bison]

I had one racer swap from the 5 disk Vig to a 9.5 non lock and rpm at the finish line was only 50-100 rpm higher than the 5 disk locked.

And ill bet he converter was about 5 lbs lighter too.

 

[BEATAV8]

How would the non-lock PTC help the car pick up more down low? Is it an effect of the reduced weight?

thanks for all the help fellas I really count on you guys!