ATR rear bar and Hotchkis front bar

[KentuckyV6]

My 87 GN is a street car only driven a bit in the good weather. I would like to improve the handling. I am reading about the great things the H&R rear bar is doing but it is probably overkill for a street car.

Would a combination of the ATR rear and a hotchkis front be acceptable and not add any undesirable handling characteristics?

 

[jdpolzin]

The ATR rear bar is fine. The Hotchkis front bar isnt an upgrade from your stock front bar. Buy a 36 or 34mm 1LE bar for the front. Otherwise look into other areas to imprive your handling.....springs, ball joints, etc.

 

[DIAZ 87]

jdpolzin,i hear alot of talk about the ATR is a good step up from stock but at the same time many have had issues with the lower control arm twisting do to
the sway bar connect to it.Would he just be better off buying the h r bar for the simple fact by the time you purchase the AtR unit and purchase some heavy duty control arms the price difference would be about 100 buck or so?

 

[jdpolzin]

It really depends on how cheap he could find an ATR bar. If he found one for $100, I'd buy it and never look back! I love my ATR bar! I did grind a little material off the spots that mate up to the control arms to prevent it from pushing the arms outwards. Was very easy to do. There is no question on the quality of the HR bars if yu want to spend the money, they are the best in my opinion. It really depends on what the application is for also, street burner taking some corners or Street/strip?

 

[DIAZ 87]

that make sense,even if he buys a new one from FT for $150 bucks,then box out the controls arm, theirs no need for the big boy at this time if the money isn't their.

 

[Rell87]

The ATR rear bar is fine. The Hotchkis front bar isnt an upgrade from your stock front bar. Buy a 36 or 34mm 1LE bar for the front. Otherwise look into other areas to imprive your handling.....springs, ball joints, etc.

I'm in the process of doing my suspension now and was thinking about putting a Hotchkis front bar on but I'm always looking for the best I can get my hands on. What brand and where can I find the 1LE 36 or 34mm bar your referring to? (never heard of it)

 

[Heg87t]

What brand and where can I find the 1LE 36 or 34mm bar your referring to? (never heard of it)

The 1LE is a stock GM front bar from a 3rd generation Camaro or Firebird. Check the junk yards, e-bay, or F-body groups for buying one.
These bars are hollow also so they shed some weight form the front end. Do a search in the section and you should find some info.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

I've had the thickest sway bars (front and rear) that are available for our cars, and when I went back to the stock front bar, it was ZERO difference. save your money, and just keep the factory front. get new bushings and endlinks, and call it a day. for the rear, definitely get the atr style bar. it changed my wheel hop and handling like day and night.
though, use FACTORY bushings for your control arms if you do indeed get that bar.

After that, get some good quality shocks, like bilsteins, and a fresh set of FACTORY springs installed, and your car will handle very nicely. that's of course, if you run a quality tire. if you're running radial T/A's, then no, your car's not going to corner very nicely. I'm a handling nut, and I know a lot of tricks for the handling aspect of our cars. (now traction, that's a whole different ball of wax)
Other things that GREATLY improve how your car drives, is bushings. ALL of them. The bushings that go in between the body and the frame, and all the control arm bushings as well.

 

[V6UnderPressure]

The ATR rear bar is fine. The Hotchkis front bar isnt an upgrade from your stock front bar. Buy a 36 or 34mm 1LE bar for the front. Otherwise look into other areas to imprive your handling.....springs, ball joints, etc.

This is wrong wrong wrong, have you measured the hotchkis??? If I am not mistaken I believe its larger than 36mm. For one its HUGE, and for two its hollow. Not sure where you got that info from. I have my hotchkis bar for sale as I picked up an edelbrock full suspension kit and it came with one. If the original poster is interested.

For the record, I used to have the 1LE, yes it does fit, but the ends are a bit shorter and the end links do not fit right, no matter what anyone says. It leaves you with flat out incorrect geometry. Its meant for the F-body's and not G-bodys. It would be different if it came off a grand prix or cutlass.

 

[V6UnderPressure]

I've had the thickest sway bars (front and rear) that are available for our cars, and when I went back to the stock front bar, it was ZERO difference. save your money, and just keep the factory front. get new bushings and endlinks, and call it a day. for the rear, definitely get the atr style bar. it changed my wheel hop and handling like day and night.
though, use FACTORY bushings for your control arms if you do indeed get that bar.

After that, get some good quality shocks, like bilsteins, and a fresh set of FACTORY springs installed, and your car will handle very nicely. that's of course, if you run a quality tire. if you're running radial T/A's, then no, your car's not going to corner very nicely. I'm a handling nut, and I know a lot of tricks for the handling aspect of our cars. (now traction, that's a whole different ball of wax)
Other things that GREATLY improve how your car drives, is bushings. ALL of them. The bushings that go in between the body and the frame, and all the control arm bushings as well.

No offense, but your comment on the front sway bar is a matter of opinion, because I noticed a drastic difference when I went from stock to a hotchkis bar. I do agree though that bilsteins are GREAT!

 

[jdpolzin]

This is wrong wrong wrong, have you measured the hotchkis??? If I am not mistaken I believe its larger than 36mm. For one its HUGE, and for two its hollow. Not sure where you got that info from. I have my hotchkis bar for sale as I picked up an edelbrock full suspension kit and it came with one. If the original poster is interested.

For the record, I used to have the 1LE, yes it does fit, but the ends are a bit shorter and the end links do not fit right, no matter what anyone says. It leaves you with flat out incorrect geometry. Its meant for the F-body's and not G-bodys. It would be different if it came off a grand prix or cutlass.

Hmmm? The Hotchkis front bar on my Monte is the same size as the stock front GN bar, although it is hollow. Maybe an older version I suppose.

I disagree on the 36mm front bar doesnt fit but to each your own. I've installed more than 20 of them and had no problems with the endlinks. How much narrower is the 1LE bar you have as compared to your stock bar? Mine is 1/4" narrower (and that may even be an exageration), thats it. I stood the two next to each other and tried to measure a difference. Couldnt really hold them perfectly level but I was as close as I could possibly get. Are you sure you didnt end up with an F-Body bar?

 

[jdpolzin]

Looks like the new Hotchkis front bars are 35mm or 1.38". These are bigger than the stock 1.25 bar. My Hotchkis bar on the Monte was the exact same size as the stock GN bars. It is probably 12 years old so I'm thinking design has changed since. Sorry for the mis-information. But...1.25 to 1.38 isnt much of a change. 1/8" difference

Width of 1992 Chevrolet Camaro-------72.5"
Width of 87 Buick Regal---------------72.4"
Not much of a width difference between the two.


I would still go with a 36mm 1LE.

 

[V6UnderPressure]

Looks like the new Hotchkis front bars are 35mm or 1.38". These are bigger than the stock 1.25 bar. My Hotchkis bar on the Monte was the exact same size as the stock GN bars. It is probably 12 years old so I'm thinking design has changed since. Sorry for the mis-information. But...1.25 to 1.38 isnt much of a change. 1/8" difference

I would still go with a 36mm 1LE.

1mm difference, plus powdercoated black, and I believe chromoly. Was worth it. Didn't you notice on installing the f-body sway bars that it seems to pull the end link towards the front because it isnt long enough? Check it out. It's NOT a direct fit replacement, no matter what anyone says. Will it work, yes. Is it perfect, not at all. Maybe someone has one lying around that they can compare with a stock GN one by laying it on top of one. I've been this route and didn't like the way the f-body bar "pulled" on the end link towards the front.

 

[V6UnderPressure]

Looks like the new Hotchkis front bars are 35mm or 1.38". These are bigger than the stock 1.25 bar. My Hotchkis bar on the Monte was the exact same size as the stock GN bars. It is probably 12 years old so I'm thinking design has changed since. Sorry for the mis-information. But...1.25 to 1.38 isnt much of a change. 1/8" difference

Width of 1992 Chevrolet Camaro-------72.5"
Width of 87 Buick Regal---------------72.4"
Not much of a width difference between the two.


I would still go with a 36mm 1LE.

Width means nothing, have you checked total length from end to end with a tape measure. The total width appears to be the same, its the length of the mounting points from the front of the car I believe is different. By all means, if you could prove me wrong I have no problem. I'm really not 100% sure as I never measured it. I am just going by what I saw with my own eyes when I installed it. But I could be blind.

 

[jdpolzin]

1mm difference, plus powdercoated black, and I believe chromoly. Was worth it. Didn't you notice on installing the f-body sway bars that it seems to pull the end link towards the front because it isnt long enough? Check it out. It's NOT a direct fit replacement, no matter what anyone says. Will it work, yes. Is it perfect, not at all. Maybe someone has one lying around that they can compare with a stock GN one by laying it on top of one. I've been this route and didn't like the way the f-body bar "pulled" on the end link towards the front.

I installed a stock GN front swaybar 3 days ago on my brothers Regal. It pulls the endlinks forward as well, that is normal. Did you double check that it was centered on the frame? I'll get a picture of the swaybar installed on the Regal and post it in a couple minutes. Unfortunately my car is to low and I wouldnt be able to get a picture of the endlinks without lifting the car, which would move the endlinks anyways. Mine arent pulled forward any more than the stock bar.

 

[V6UnderPressure]

I installed a stock GN front swaybar 3 days ago on my brothers Regal. It pulls the endlinks forward as well, that is normal. Did you double check that it was centered on the frame? I'll get a picture of the swaybar installed on the Regal and post it in a couple minutes. Unfortunately my car is to low and I wouldnt be able to get a picture of the endlinks without lifting the car, which would move the endlinks anyways. Mine arent pulled forward any more than the stock bar.

Thats interesting, because when I swapped my stock one for an f-body, I had a hard time getting the end links in because it felt short, then I went to hotchkis and the end links lined up perfectly. So I truly don't know what the deal was. Yes it was centered.

 

[jdpolzin]

Width means nothing, have you checked total length from end to end with a tape measure. The total width appears to be the same, its the length of the mounting points from the front of the car I believe is different. By all means, if you could prove me wrong I have no problem. I'm really not 100% sure as I never measured it. I am just going by what I saw with my own eyes when I installed it. But I could be blind.

Well just measured the two cars by hooking the tape onto the endlink and measuring to the front of the swaybar mounting bracket on the frame. They are both exactly the same at 14 3/4". So the width is essentially the same as well as the length backward from the brackets. Not sure what else I could measure to compare. They are essentially identical bar, the 36mm 1LE is just larger and hollow.

 

[jdpolzin]

Thats interesting, because when I swapped my stock one for an f-body, I had a hard time getting the end links in because it felt short, then I went to hotchkis and the end links lined up perfectly. So I truly don't know what the deal was. Yes it was centered.

We had the same problem installing a stock bar on my brothers car. With the new bushings on the endlinks, which have not been compressed yet, we had to pull the bar down with all the force I could put into it just to start the nut on the threads without the top washer. Once I smashed the bushings some, I had to take the nut off, put the top washer on and force the bar down once again in order to start the nut again. There was no way in hell I could get the washer and nut on the first time.

 

[V6UnderPressure]

Well just measured the two cars by hooking the tape onto the endlink and measuring to the front of the swaybar mounting bracket on the frame. They are both exactly the same at 14 3/4". So the width is essentially the same as well as the length backward from the brackets. Not sure what else I could measure to compare. They are essentially identical bar, the 36mm 1LE is just larger and hollow.

Have you checked where the curves were on the bar? Another thing I remembered is that where the bar made the curve towards the rear of the car was quicker than on the stock setup, causing the bend to bind up into the bushing. This is no good. Ideally, if the bars were the same, then companies like Hotchkis or Edelbrock would have the same part number for the sway bar for both F-Body and G-body. They don't. But the 1LE is a good poor man's sway bar. <---not calling you poor, just a figure of speech.

 

[jdpolzin]

Have you checked where the curves were on the bar? Another thing I remembered is that where the bar made the curve towards the rear of the car was quicker than on the stock setup, causing the bend to bind up into the bushing. This is no good. Ideally, if the bars were the same, then companies like Hotchkis or Edelbrock would have the same part number for the sway bar for both F-Body and G-body. They don't. But the 1LE is a good poor man's sway bar. <---not calling you poor, just a figure of speech.

Bends are essentially the same too. Here's a couple pics:

As far as being poor, tonight Ashley is out of town for work and my son is at his grandparents......guess what I'm doing? Sitting here on TurboBuick.com and drinking Boones Farm Wine!!!!!! HAHA!!! Yeah dude, I'm poor!:biggrin: Trust me!