Interesting cam lobe pictures....233"T/R roller vs. 430" sbf nitrous roller

[fastblackracing]

Just received the cam we ordered from comp for our 430" sbf nitrous motor project, and had to compare the lobes on each to one another. The t/r performance cam is 210/206 with .516" lift and the 430" sbf is 278/296 with .782" and .792" lift...... I had the t/r cams out the other day looking at them cause I have a few I am thinking of selling and when I pulled this bad boy out of the box I was like wow. Thought you might enjoy the comparison. Standard ford size cam core no oversize cores.

 

[Mike T]

Wow! The one for the 430 looks like it would keep the valves open a lot longer than the TR.

 

[SS502]

I don't get it... what is the surprise..? Too different animals... Thanks for the pics.

 

[fastblackracing]

QUOTE="SS502, post: 3562145, member: 36075"]I don't get it... what is the surprise..? Too different animals... Thanks for the pics.[ QUOTE]
There is no surprise, Just thought the massive differences in what it takes camshaft wise to make big power might spark some interesting conversation that could lead to gained intelligence by all of us. And the lack of intelligent posts has been on the decline for some time now, I am not the only who has noticed this. With over 200 views and only 2 people asking about it well...proves that point. Now if I had posted up about what kind of wiper blades to use or proper torque for valve stem caps there would be more interest. Thanks for asking.

 

[fastblackracing]

Wow! The one for the 430 looks like it would keep the valves open a lot longer than the TR.

Absolutley Mike T, there is a whole lot more open time there and The exhaust is substantially more than the intake. This is my first semi serious N2O engine and I enjoy the challenge and the learning as much as I do the end result.....so I am wondering how does what I learn from this engine build benefit my next T/R engine build?....... I have always used a longer or at least the same intake duration event on my T/R engines with good results And struggle with the idea of a longer exhaust event on a T/R cam. Not saying it does not work but has anyone done a longer intake verse a longer exhaust on the same turbo regal engine combo with some meaningful data to make heads or tails out the good and the bad? I always question stuff like this try to get the best information that I can.

 

[turbobitt]

There is no surprise, Just thought the massive differences in what it takes camshaft wise to make big power might spark some interesting conversation that could lead to gained intelligence by all of us. And the lack of intelligent posts has been on the decline for some time now, I am not the only who has noticed this. With over 200 views and only 2 people asking about it well...proves that point. Now if I had posted up about what kind of wiper blades to use or proper torque for valve stem caps there would be more interest. Thanks for asking.

Not many people would really have an opinion on this so maybe the reason for the lack of interest. For example, the two cams pictured are Buick stage 2 cams. Can you tell what cam is bigger ? Then ask yourself what would you classify as bigger ? More lift, duration, both ?? In the end does it matter to the casual reader ? We could reply with hundreds of post and still know one will agree on anything.

The more interesting thing to note for us Buick guys is how the cam is ground and the variances compared to advertised and what can be done to get a cam that is more like what you would expect.

AG.

 

[SS/GN]

I work on Superstock BBC and he has more than 30 cams he has tested, what we think works often doesn't. I will try and snap a couple pics. Cam tech has changed lots in the last few years but combination is more important than anything. If the cam is a little on the small side it will always make better average power than one that is too big

 

[SS502]

fastblackracing said:
And the lack of intelligent posts has been on the decline for some time now, I am not the only who has noticed this. With over 200 views and only 2 people asking about it well...proves that point. Now if I had posted up about what kind of wiper blades to use or proper torque for valve stem caps there would be more interest. Thanks for asking.

Also notice a lot of thin skinned people here also, was just trying to figure out what the point of your thread was. Only 2 ppl out of 200 that post to this kinda proves the point. But I'm all for a conversation on ppl's experience with cams and combinations, and if it helps somebody from making mistakes all of us have had made in the past, Buick or not... all the better.

SS/GN said : work on Superstock BBC and he has more than 30 cams he has tested, what we think works often doesn't. I will try and snap a couple pics. Cam tech has changed lots in the last few years but combination is more important than anything. If the cam is a little on the small side it will always make better average power than one that is too big.

Couldn't agree more, bigger isn't always better, and your combination, especially if your car is more of a "street" car. Seen quite a few just go for big lift & duration only to have the car fall on it's face. Take time to read the cam card, if the peak power comes in at lets say 4500-5500 rpm, ask yourself.. how many times will my car be at that rpm. Now if your more street than track, you would probably like something that peaks in the 3000-4000 range, if were talking stock to mild upgrades. The whole thing changes as your combination changes. Baby steps is the way to go.. test & tune. Especially with the GN/T-type.

Wasn't trying to be a smartass to you fastblackracing, so I apologize if it came off that way. But at least the thread got a kick-start.

 

[bison]

If that buick cam is a hyd roller you'd probably be surprised to find that the opening ramp is at least as aggressive as the ford at low lift. Tmk the correct master for a Ford small block with standard cam journal is B. Is there a B suffix after the lobe numbers? Also looks like they could have ground even more lift into it. I'd be interested in the analysis of that ford cam if you are equipped to properly analyze it. I can trade you analysis of the xe lobes the buick cam is likely ground to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mike T]

Can you tell what cam is bigger ? Then ask yourself what would you classify as bigger ? More lift, duration, both ??

The cam on the RT appears to have more lift and duration. Your post makes a good point.......my general thought has always been that more lift would have classified it as a bigger cam. After thinking about it duration could fill the cylinder just as well but the over lap would be detrimental.

 

[turbobitt]

The cam on the RT appears to have more lift and duration. Your post makes a good point.......my general thought has always been that more lift would have classified it as a bigger cam. After thinking about it duration could fill the cylinder just as well but the over lap would be detrimental.

Cam on the left has a lot more lift and a lot less duration and a whole lot more aggressive...... So does it classify it as bigger or smaller........
AG.

 

[Mike T]

I was judging the lift by the distance from the bearing journal. Does the one on the LT have a smaller base circle?

 

[turbobitt]

I was judging the lift by the distance from the bearing journal. Does the one on the LT have a smaller base circle?

Yes, They actually both are about the same distance from the bearing journal and I think is held to about .020 below. Generally speaking when a cam gets more lift the base circle get smaller.
AG.

 

[JimP]

I come here to learn, I don't often post because I have nothing to add but I do take away some knowledge and when I can help out I do.

I'm thankful for the experts we do have here or my Buick would not be what it is today and I laid a few beatings with it last night!

 

[fastblackracing]

fastblackracing said:
And the lack of intelligent posts has been on the decline for some time now, I am not the only who has noticed this. With over 200 views and only 2 people asking about it well...proves that point. Now if I had posted up about what kind of wiper blades to use or proper torque for valve stem caps there would be more interest. Thanks for asking.

Also notice a lot of thin skinned people here also, was just trying to figure out what the point of your thread was. Only 2 ppl out of 200 that post to this kinda proves the point. But I'm all for a conversation on ppl's experience with cams and combinations, and if it helps somebody from making mistakes all of us have had made in the past, Buick or not... all the better.

SS/GN said : work on Superstock BBC and he has more than 30 cams he has tested, what we think works often doesn't. I will try and snap a couple pics. Cam tech has changed lots in the last few years but combination is more important than anything. If the cam is a little on the small side it will always make better average power than one that is too big.

Couldn't agree more, bigger isn't always better, and your combination, especially if your car is more of a "street" car. Seen quite a few just go for big lift & duration only to have the car fall on it's face. Take time to read the cam card, if the peak power comes in at lets say 4500-5500 rpm, ask yourself.. how many times will my car be at that rpm. Now if your more street than track, you would probably like something that peaks in the 3000-4000 range, if were talking stock to mild upgrades. The whole thing changes as your combination changes. Baby steps is the way to go.. test & tune. Especially with the GN/T-type.

Wasn't trying to be a smartass to you fastblackracing, so I apologize if it came off that way. But at least the thread got a kick-start.

At least you had something to ask about it SS502, no offense taken.......I am just surprised at the lack of interest........ Since there is not much going on here lately I am trying to apply what I have going on in my other build to make for some interesting and worthwhile learning that we can use to help us with our Turbo Regals....... We are looking to make 750 motor, which should give 600+rear wheel and spray 450-600 to put us at 1000 rear wheel. Thats the plan ....... we put down 850 rear wheel with the last combo and We do have A spare system and bottles complete with a Nano system that may find its way into my Turbo T's trunk....... The cam has the exhaust lifter .050 open at 86* BBDC. So how early can we open A T/R exhaust and not suffer any ill effects? IIRC my t/r cam has the exhaust .050 open at 45* BBDC now, I am thinking about A bigger exhaust lobe on my next T/R engine say 230*+ on a wide LSA 118*-120*. Something to think about we started collecting parts all ready for it. Thanks for the interest

 

[fastblackracing]

If that buick cam is a hyd roller you'd probably be surprised to find that the opening ramp is at least as aggressive as the ford at low lift. Tmk the correct master for a Ford small block with standard cam journal is B. Is there a B suffix after the lobe numbers? Also looks like they could have ground even more lift into it. I'd be interested in the analysis of that ford cam if you are equipped to properly analyze it. I can trade you analysis of the xe lobes the buick cam is likely ground to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The suffix is F for this cam, the lobe series is the HPX series with an MI of 28.5* 14.0/14.5 not their fastest ramps but one of the faster series for sure. The lobe lift is .495 and .489, so the duration numbers go like this: rated 324* . 050 @ 296* .200 @ 223*. The extreme xfi hydro lobes are around 27* MI, the extreme energy hydros are around 27* MI, and the older T/R rollers I have are the high energy magnum rollers come in at 28.7* MI....... You are correct in your statement about them being as fast or faster than the HPX I used. I needed stability to 8400 rpm so I chose the hpx it had closest to the lift and duration we needed......... Our design restrictions were .800 lift max, Staying with our pac 1226 springs and hopefully gentle enough on the valve gear to last 1 year - 1000 or so miles. ....... I saw MI ranging from 24* to 40*. I will plot the lift/duration in 5* increments when it gets to that point...... graph paper and a pencil is all I have to do it with, Thanks for your offer to send your info. I will ask around if someone local has a cam doc. Should be fun moving 2000-2400 PPH of N2O.