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Chuck
blackgn1 said:I love Speed Density. With Powerlogger I had a clean tune after looking thru a few logs. It does require tuning knowledge but that's neeeded with any setup. No MAF sensor is a plus. I don't miss it.
TurboTnZ06 said:Or get the TurboTweak 6.1 chip + wideband + powerlogger that uses a MAF for around town cruising and then locks onto a target A/F for WOT track use.
I may be wrong but doesn't speed density require more in depth tuning?
Cost wise, how does it pan out?
Thanks Joe
TurboDave said:There are a number of different ways to go here. MAF of course will be the best way for the everyday user that would rather leave most of the measuring and tweaking done by the car and onboard computer and it's inherent limitations (8 bit). The flow limit of the stock computer can be fooled into thinking it's much bigger by adding an Extender chip and allow for a higher mass air flow measurement. It's fooling the ECM but works extremely well and is easy to tune. This is the standard chip/ecm configuration in which the ECM has full control over everything (except some fueling/timing adjustments allowed by chip features).
One can delve into Speed Density (SD) in a number of ways and this allows for a much wider range of user control over the system. Basically there are 3 ways to accomplish this and they vary in complexity.
The first two I'll refer to as pseudo SD methods since the stock ECM is still in the picture and must receive a MAF signal, although fake, generated by the user's equipmen. The 3rd, true SD.
The first method is through the use of a TT SD chip which contains a small internal VE like table and generates a MAF signal the ECM can understand from this (I'm speculating here because I don't run this setup). It allows the user to make adjustments to what appears to be a 2 x 4 table (8) to control fueling. Not sure how timing is handled here.
The second method is via the use of the Translator Pro, and Extender Pro (by Bailey Engineering) chip combination. This is a hardware/chip combination in which the hardware intercepts various inputs from the engine bay, including, but not limited to Wideband, RPM, Manifold Temp, Manifold pressure. The hardware then uses these inputs, and a large 15 x 17 VE table, plus user tune tables to generate the pseudo MAF signal required by the ECM. The Pro can also handle two different WOT timing tables (based on aux intput, usually tranny gear), and two different boost control signals (based on aux intput, usually tranny gear) which can be closed loop or open loop. Complete Wideband O2 control that is not only WOT, but can be used to control cruise and idle closed loop control if one chooses. I personally let the stock narrowband control idle and cruise and have the Wideband take over WOT control. And a couple dozen other user controlled items.
This particular system is NOT for the faint of heart when it comes to tuning abilities!!
The third method is true SD, and is accomplished uing a completely separate stand alone ECM that replaces the stock ECM and chip combo. We know these by several different names such as FAST, XFI, BigStuff3, Megasquirt, and a number of others. These systems work with much the same theory, and use all the same inputs from the engine bay to control fuel/air/spark/boost, etc.
However, it must be said, that as compicated as the Translator Pro seems to many users, these systems are FAR FAR more complex. The reason being, they require the user to setup and control ALL dozens and dozens of overhead items that the ECM handles with the Translator Pro. Everything the ECM handled must now be taken car of and controlled by the user, so the same caveat applies here in spades!
These systems are NOT for the faint of heart when in comes to tuning abilties!!!!!!!
The user must then decide how much time and effort they want to dedicate to the well being of their state of tune before deciding on which route to take.
I personally decided to go with the Translator Pro since I've had some experience helping friends tune their FAST systems in the past. Although I wasn't particularly intimidated by these systems, I decided on my particular route because I knew I was about to retire the car from racing, but still wanted to be able to tune a complete VE table, and leave the ECM to take care of all the overhead duties. I've got the car running phenominally well, with better throttle response than it has ever had, and my CF% curve is significantly below 3% across and entire WOT blast.
Sorry for the rambling folks. Choose your poison, they all work great!!!!
Oh boy, I'm in over my head. I'm defiantly going to need some help buying the right stuff and tuning. This is slightly intimidating,
Thanks Joe