TAI Class for 2008 BG Nationals

Why does it have to be a 109? Safety stuff is mandated ny the track they do inspections not track renters. If you want o say must ahve safety equipmrnt for speed attained that is fine with me, but in the end the track will have the say. Also you keep saying "street car" there is no roll bar rule on the street so you don't get it both ways
MIke
 
Every Body

Hey Mike, What do you think about what streetking said. If we limit the tire size, like say the 10.5 Outlaw class, that seems to be the cheapest equalizer. Say like no Boost Controller, no Trans Brake, DOT 275 limit tire, weight penalty for aluminum heads, and of course pump gas/alky. Then turbo's, Intercoolers and any 3.8 blocks can be used. I think it would put alot of 10.50-11.30 cars in the second class. There's alot F/M's, 70,71,72 and 76 turbo's out there. That would still make it a good heads up class.
 
Mike correct if I am wrong....thought the whole idea behind this class was to showcase the fact that street-able cars can run fast with alky...maybe we need two groups alky race cars and alky drivers...unless I want to bracket race what other class is there. you know what I have purchased from you..Dan states and I have talked to him that the car is a daily driver...what is to stop a TSO guy adding alky and some weight and blowing everyones doors off....as far as track safety is concerned...I am not going to touch that subject. yes have safety equipment for the speeds attained,, but you and I know there are guys out there running around with very quick cars on the street....with zero safety concerns...so to say it is a street class and street cars do not have roll bars..IMO is a little off base....I know my car is going to be quicker than 11.49...hence the cage...Dan knows from Cecil that his car is quicker than 135..so did the track...and now he has a cage....just think the basics should be weight...Dot tires...and be streetable...and 93 octane...otherwise...and as we have seen here it is just going to go back and forth... try and bring the guys that already have the set up and drive it everyday...thats the draw to me...hey I take my kids to the movies and still get 20mpg and is a 10 sec street car that is safe....
 
gbsean said:
Mike correct if I am wrong....thought the whole idea behind this class was to showcase the fact that street-able cars can run fast with alky...maybe we need two groups alky race cars and alky drivers...unless I want to bracket race what other class is there. you know what I have purchased from you..Dan states and I have talked to him that the car is a daily driver...what is to stop a TSO guy adding alky and some weight and blowing everyones doors off....as far as track safety is concerned...I am not going to touch that subject. yes have safety equipment for the speeds attained,, but you and I know there are guys out there running around with very quick cars on the street....with zero safety concerns...so to say it is a street class and street cars do not have roll bars..IMO is a little off base....I know my car is going to be quicker than 11.49...hence the cage...Dan knows from Cecil that his car is quicker than 135..so did the track...and now he has a cage....just think the basics should be weight...Dot tires...and be streetable...and 93 octane...otherwise...and as we have seen here it is just going to go back and forth... try and bring the guys that already have the set up and drive it everyday...thats the draw to me...hey I take my kids to the movies and still get 20mpg and is a 10 sec street car that is safe....
Click to expand...


Not sure why the TSO reference keeps coming up..... this is a stock block class... in case you and a few others don't know it, the TSO class is primarily a stage motored class. I would be more worried about TSM cars dropping down. I for one do not plan to pull my stage 2 motor out of my TSO car and replace it with a 109 block. I plan on preparing a street car to be competitive in the Quick 8 heads up side of the class if it happens and if I can qualify. For those that do not qualify for the Quick 8, we will have a bracket class, possibly with a pro tree...of course that is if that is how the rules end up. Who knows what is going to happen on the track....

On the subject of tires, I believe it is a mistake to limit the tire size to 275-60, I am sure there will be some serious cars there, I've run on a small tire, the speeds we are capable of running with these alchy cars would not be very safe with a small tire. Since there appears to be a serious concern about safety, tires are one of the most important areas to consider.. We've built many street cars with serious tires on the back.... tire size or type has very little to do with wether or not it is a street car these days.

There is no need to be afraid of FAST cars.... for those that don't make the Q-8, there is the bracket class... I'll say it again, it seems a few just don't get it....... if you race a 10 second car and you have an 11 second car, the 11 second car gets a 1 second jump off the lite, hence it is a fair race.... there is no reason to not race if you want to race, no reason to feel intimidated... it'll be a great class.... no matter what event runs it..

I hope that clears up some misconceptions,
Happy Holidays,
 
Hey Mike, get the Borg W extended tip turbo in the 3 bolt right along with the COP around May and I will be your test subject, 70BB please. :biggrin:
 
Why do people keep posting about weight penalties for aluminum heads? Is there also a need for penalizing the removal of the front sway bar or for having aluminum pulleys or fiberglass bumpers/hoods or maybe aluminum bumper supports? Oh lets not forget aluminum wheels too. Oh and aluminum radiators. And those oh-so-light aluminum billet vacuum blocks and while we are at it lets penalize those who have a dual nozzle ALKY set-up cuz I only have a single nozzle. Since I don't have S-10 wheel cylinders and shoes lets penalize them also because they can hold more boost than me. Be real its an alky street class. If your car makes minimum weight and any of the yet-to-be-determined rules lets race. My car weighs more than most as its a high optioned moon roof with no weight reduction other than the heads.

Bryan

Jack, are you listening? my car needs a diet.;) You better bring me a slim-fast bumper to BG
 
cnoble64 said:
Hey Mike, What do you think about what streetking said. If we limit the tire size, like say the 10.5 Outlaw class, that seems to be the cheapest equalizer. Say like no Boost Controller, no Trans Brake, DOT 275 limit tire, weight penalty for aluminum heads, and of course pump gas/alky. Then turbo's, Intercoolers and any 3.8 blocks can be used. I think it would put alot of 10.50-11.30 cars in the second class. There's alot F/M's, 70,71,72 and 76 turbo's out there. That would still make it a good heads up class.
Click to expand...

No boost controller..... that doesn't make much sense Curtis... how do you propose we control boost.... Throw JR under the hood with a pair of pliers...:biggrin:
As for tire size agin.... plenty of street cars with larger than 275's... with 10 second power, tough to hook dem little bitty tires.. not that we can't.... I've been racing for a few years and tires are not going to even the playing field. The bottom line, run your dial in and you don't have to worry about the guy in the other lane...
 
JCotton said:
Not sure why the TSO reference keeps coming up..... this is a stock block class... in case you and a few others don't know it, the TSO class is primarily a stage motored class. I would be more worried about TSM cars dropping down. I for one do not plan to pull my stage 2 motor out of my TSO car and replace it with a 109 block. I plan on preparing a street car to be competitive in the Quick 8 heads up side of the class if it happens and if I can qualify. For those that do not qualify for the Quick 8, we will have a bracket class, possibly with a pro tree...of course that is if that is how the rules end up. Who knows what is going to happen on the track....

On the subject of tires, I believe it is a mistake to limit the tire size to 275-60, I am sure there will be some serious cars there, I've run on a small tire, the speeds we are capable of running with these alchy cars would not be very safe with a small tire. Since there appears to be a serious concern about safety, tires are one of the most important areas to consider.. We've built many street cars with serious tires on the back.... tire size or type has very little to do with wether or not it is a street car these days.

There is no need to be afraid of FAST cars.... for those that don't make the Q-8, there is the bracket class... I'll say it again, it seems a few just don't get it....... if you race a 10 second car and you have an 11 second car, the 11 second car gets a 1 second jump off the lite, hence it is a fair race.... there is no reason to not race if you want to race, no reason to feel intimidated... it'll be a great class.... no matter what event runs it..

I hope that clears up some misconceptions,
Happy Holidays,
Click to expand...

Mike had made the reference "why only 109 blocks"...why because of the stage motor issue...and yes tires are an issue...if it is a street car then you don't run slicks on the street....maybe I just need to understand what this class is try to do.....I thought it was to create an alky class for those many of us running alky on the street now...without spending $$$$ on a car that see's a tree more than it see's a stop light. If that is the case then I will drop this conversation. :smile:
 
Here is the problem this is a RACE class, and while the cars are street oriented and trying to represent what we drive, guys do drive stage blocks on the street, guys have race cars they drive. so one mans street car is different than another, when you put a class together there wil always be guys who build cars to fit the class, they will take it to the limit and stretch every rule. They come to WIN, period. I know if I bring a car I am not bringing a car I don't think has a chance to win and I know Grumpy has gone in the 9's with a 67 turbo so I know I at least have to be there, and we will. A car that fast with radials and no boost controller is frankly unsafe, safety was brought up too as I recall. Slicks become somewhat of a safety item at those speeds with drivers that don't race all the time. No insults just fact. This is why the quick 8 and bracket or consistant field idea is by far the best. Let the guys who really want to step up duke it out heads up and the rest show how fast and consistant they can be. This is what is going to give us the most car count, the most prize money and the most fun I believe. Juilo, what do you think? You are the man now
Mike
 
ok i am cool with that...just trying to figure out where I can fit in....and still have fun without blowing up.....:eek:
 
I think the rules should be kept to a minimum to help showcase the potential of running pump gas & alky. Why turn this into another cookie cutter class? I like the Quick 8 idea for the serious cars & a 3 run average for everyone else. The limiting factor should be how much power you think you can make on pump gas & hook it with DOT tires.

Simple rules:
DOT tires (Any)
The Same pump gas & methanol for everyone
All safety equipment & credentials for the speed you plan to run
Buick bodies (Any engine combination)
Hybrid bodies (Buick powered)

Keep the rules simple & you may get a real car count that will be FUN to be a part of.
 
gbsean said:
ok i am cool with that...just trying to figure out where I can fit in....and still have fun without blowing up.....:eek:
Click to expand...

Glad to see you finally figured out what I've been saying since my first post... Guess it must have something to do with the messenger and not the message... :) Hope to see you at BG.. it'll be a blast, as always..
 
It is the BUICK NATS the GSCA not going to let a chevy powered Regal run in a class of any kind. Maybe an test pass but that is about it. So you can forget that, same with Hybrids, unles it is Buick on Buick If you want to bring an Opel Kadett with a GN motor that would be cool but a Toyota I doubt they would want. Again that is a GSCA issue. So if we are talking Nats that is how it will be. DOT tires are OK but I frankly do not see the need, slicks make it safer and cheaper, the technology needed to hook a DOT tire is costly and complicated. It sounds great until they see a guy with a super expensive trick suspension and a 275 tire going in the nines doing a wheelstand and they cant get better than a 1.6 60 ft with a 295 tire, this will happen. Slicks even the field in a cost effictive manner.
Mike
 
well the only thing I can add to this "party" is that we will be down there having fun just like last year :biggrin: I think this maybe getting to much like TSM and TSO (IF they allow Stage2's ) .. I dunno .. like other's have said... those other cars in those classes could put an alky system on their cars and not even turn them on :confused: ok have to go shovel SNOW !!! winter is officially here :frown: it does sound like we should have a great turnout for the class :cool: oh forgot one thing... I vote for slicks .. safety is coming into play running this MPH !!
 
I can't see many of competitive TSM guys running Alcohol. NOT knocking Alcohol but I don't think I would be running pump gas in ANY of my race specific motors for any reason. Again not knocking Alcohol at all, if we didn't have so many irons in the fire I would run this class...
 
Mike Licht said:
It is the BUICK NATS the GSCA not going to let a chevy powered Regal run in a class of any kind. Maybe an test pass but that is about it. So you can forget that, same with Hybrids, unles it is Buick on Buick If you want to bring an Opel Kadett with a GN motor that would be cool but a Toyota I doubt they would want. Again that is a GSCA issue. So if we are talking Nats that is how it will be. DOT tires are OK but I frankly do not see the need, slicks make it safer and cheaper, the technology needed to hook a DOT tire is costly and complicated. It sounds great until they see a guy with a super expensive trick suspension and a 275 tire going in the nines doing a wheelstand and they cant get better than a 1.6 60 ft with a 295 tire, this will happen. Slicks even the field in a cost effictive manner.
Mike
Click to expand...

It's SAD that the GSCA isn't open for new ideas & technology. No wonder car counts & attendance #'s are down. The Nat's are starting to look more like Jurasic park than a REAL car event.
 
Keep it simple

I had a long conversation with Julio the other day and he made some really good points including his take on tires. After our conversation I totally agree that slicks are the way to go and keep cost down. I am not even sure that it would have to be limited to a 109 block. If someone wants to run their mega dollar stage motor on pump gas and alky and put up a number so be it. It won't be me and I am not sure many of those guys would do that. If someone does I will line up next to them and see how it turns out.

I guess my take is if being the big duck in this tiny little Buick puddle is what someones life is based on that's sad. Bring your car, race it, learn something new from what someone else is doing, HAVE FUN.

New rules proposal pump gas alky. Let's play. :D
 
Pump gas & Alky, I'm down for that. Who else is in? Grumpy? Jack?
Are we still talking quick 8 and bracket or consistant field for the rest?
Mike
 
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