Time to go stage II with A/C!

[SCOOBY DOO]

Brad, next time you go to see Norbs, pick up the wrench off of the work bench and introduce it to the side of his melon, maybe, just maybe that might knock some sense into him.

Trying to help Norbs...is an exercise in futility. I'm having way too much fun racing and hanging out with the guys out here in the Belleville-Kingston area to care anymore.

 

[norbs]

Well I'm open to some experimentation on timing and spool methods. Many have made some good suggestions, I will have to compare logs and see what works best, I guess I could put more timing in it, and if JS box goes off, I;ll know Ive gone too far. As for loading it on the converter I only do it once when the tranny is cold, then let it sit, I have a trans temp gauge in the car and it stays cool, (160 max) but its still cold outside also. AS for the turbo housing I do have a larger 1.15 but I really need this to be responsive for now, if the hp number are lacking on the top I could swap it out. I;ve watched Allans video of him spooling for 6 seconds, its not a pretty site

 

[norbs]

Trying to help Norbs...is an exercise in futility. I'm having way too much fun racing and hanging out with the guys out here in the Belleville-Kingston area to care anymore.

I like to do my stuff my own way and have my own goals to achieve, if your having fun that is great nothing wrong with that.

 

[SCOOBY DOO]

Brad, next time you go to see Norbs, pick up the wrench off of the work bench and introduce it to the side of his melon, maybe, just maybe that might knock some sense into him.

You'd only bend a perfectly good wrench.

 

[norbs]

I'll be interested in how well it works at 35 psi. I've never ran that small of an A/R on the GT4276. Nearly everyone runs a 1.28 housing or larger.
13psi launch is pretty optimistic. Should be good for some 1.2X short times if it hooks

I highly doubt those 60' times, the car is just too heavy, but thanks for being optimistic. Its only 232 cubic inches, not sure if the turbine is going to be such a restiction, until I get the backpressure logging its going to be tough to make some decisions for AR..

 

[SCOOBY DOO]

I highly doubt those 60' times, the car is just too heavy, but thanks for being optimistic. Its only 232 cubic inches, not sure if the turbine is going to be such a restiction, until I get the backpressure logging its going to be tough to make some decisions for AR..

I thought you had to go to the track to get a 60 foot time.

 

[turbobitt]

I've watched Allans video of him spooling for 6 seconds, its not a pretty site

I got it down to 4.5 seconds but hoping for further improvments with my new cam change and some other tweeking with the turbo....

Allan G.

 

[norbs]

I got it down to 4.5 seconds but hoping for further improvments with my new cam change and some other tweeking with the turbo....

Allan G.

And what did you find to work best for spool up without the 2 step in the picture?

 

[turbobitt]

And what did you find to work best for spool up without the 2 step in the picture?

Just a lot of timing and tune to get the most torque. Try playing with the a/f ratio and keep in mind that pump gas is highly oxygenated compared to C-16 and will require further tweaking when switching to race fuel. I underestimated the change and turned my car into a pig on the spool area.
I will be taking advantage of the creep feature next time at the track.
AG

 

[BlownV6]

OK Im back with one more question. How much boost and rpm can you guys leave the line at safely witout blowing the tires off ?? What ever those numbers are that Norbs chooses to try. Would it be safe to say that 35 degrees timing would be safe up to that point ?? Once it hits the 2 step the timing could be ramped back and the boost controller take over to hold the boost number wanted. Am I thinking correctly ?? OK now Im out!!! Mike

 

[Alky V6]

With my last setup, the best traction launches were in the area of 5750 rpm and 11 psi boost.
6000+ rpm and 15-16 psi boost launches would slip the tires too much.

Yes, Mike. That should work for Norbs.

 

[BlownV6]

With my last setup, the best traction launches were in the area of 5750 rpm and 11 psi boost.
6000+ rpm and 15-16 psi boost launches would slip the tires too much.

Yes, Mike. That should work for Norbs.

Thanks Donnie, Ok hopefully others will pipe in on there combo. I suspect that your numbers will be a bit higher than others simply because your engine is so small that the torque numbers are going to be smaller. Basically a decent suspesion in a G-body should be able to hookup X amount of torque on X tire. Norbs what tire and do you have any suspension mods??
Really the point Im getting at is. Should Norbs be able to use 35 degrees of timing or so to get to around 10# of boost??
If this would be safe then in my opinion use say 35 degrees until you are at 10# and see where the converter flashes to.
If all looks to usable then you will need to give a try at the track. Now Im defenetly out!! Mike

 

[turbobitt]

Thanks Donnie, Ok hopefully others will pipe in on there combo. I suspect that your numbers will be a bit higher than others simply because your engine is so small that the torque numbers are going to be smaller. Basically a decent suspesion in a G-body should be able to hookup X amount of torque on X tire. Norbs what tire and do you have any suspension mods??
Really the point Im getting at is. Should Norbs be able to use 35 degrees of timing or so to get to around 10# of boost??
If this would be safe then in my opinion use say 35 degrees until you are at 10# and see where the converter flashes to.
If all looks to usable then you will need to give a try at the track. Now Im defenetly out!! Mike

I was leaving atabout 4800 rpm and 10# boost. Since it was my first time out and testing the waters, I had very conservative timing at 27.5 degrees. Having more data, I will be pushing the launch RPM up and definetly throwing more timing at it. My new tune will have 34 degrees at the same boost/rpm.

FWIW - I'm running a much bigger cam than Norbs and actually have about 45 degrees in the vacuum cells and quickly tapper it out when building boost. Having low cylinder pressure this timing stratagy works for me. All of the above is running C-16.
Allan G.

 

[norbs]

Mike I have a few mods, moser ford 9" 3.50 gear , metco lower arms, edelbrock, adustable uppers, HR rear sway bar, air bags, 50/50 lakewood rear shocks, 70/30 fronts, G body upper and lower arms, no swaybar, Stock coil springs. Tire is a hoosier 28 x 10.5 slick,.... I will be making a new timing map and we can go over the results...........should I be targeting a different AF ratio up to 13 psi let say?

 

[SCOOBY DOO]

How old are those slicks?

 

[BlownV6]

Mike I have a few mods, moser ford 9" 3.50 gear , metco lower arms, edelbrock, adustable uppers, HR rear sway bar, air bags, 50/50 lakewood rear shocks, 70/30 fronts, G body upper and lower arms, no swaybar, Stock coil springs. Tire is a hoosier 28 x 10.5 slick,.... I will be making a new timing map and we can go over the results...........should I be targeting a different AF ratio up to 13 psi let say?

Im trying to get out of this thread !! Im certainly no Cal Hartline and I have "0" experience with what your doing.
But I look at it like this , a nascar v6 engine had 14 to 1 compression and used around 34 degees of timing throughout an entire race at 500 to 550HP. I cant see 8 to 1 compression with 10 - 12# of boost making that much power or at least not much more power!! So in my mind the timing will defenetly help the spoolup (no doubt) and should still be safe as far as hurting anything. Once your up on the pipe then back the timing down to the gragh that you feel comfortable with. I would note weather the engine starts losing RPM after the timing starts retarding. This will help you decide what kind of adjustments to make from there. Adding timing will just make everything and the driver happier.

I dont suggest this period!! But I run 35 degrees timing locked throughout a run at 65# boost if that makes you feel any better. Mike

 

[Dusty Bradford]

On good gas like C16 I'm not scared of 36 degrees and 10psi on the brake.

Less timing like 5-10 degrees with alot of fuel will build alot of boost. Dealing with the transition from a normal map to a boost building map with very low timing can be handled a couple different ways. However more timing has always worked so I've never experimented with the low timing set up used by the clutch cars. Spool time without using a 3 step is a non issue. I never roll into staging at idle so optimizing spool time from an idle isn't a concern. I get on a 3 step before lighting the bottom bulb to minimize spool time.

 

[Alky V6]

Mike. The work that I've done with a drag sim that I use to match the sort of performance I was getting with the car showed that a good launch hp target for a stock style suspension, 29.5x10.5-15W tire, is around 850 hp at the hit, ramping in quickly after the hit.
I just threw that tire example in there because that is what I was using.

 

[BlownV6]

Mike. The work that I've done with a drag sim that I use to match the sort of performance I was getting with the car showed that a good launch hp target for a stock style suspension, 29.5x10.5-15W tire, is around 850 hp at the hit, ramping in quickly after the hit.
I just threw that tire example in there because that is what I was using.

Since most 109 blocks would be pushing hard to make 850 HP reliably , I would have to question that number.
Just saying that I have seen a lot of TSM cars blow the tires off at the hit. Now Jason white and a hand full of others might be pushing that!! I really have no idea , but an out of the box car with limited suspension mods would not move off the starting line!! At least in my opinion. But honestly I have no idea. Thanks for the info Mike

 

[BlownV6]

On good gas like C16 I'm not scared of 36 degrees and 10psi on the brake.

Less timing like 5-10 degrees with alot of fuel will build alot of boost. Dealing with the transition from a normal map to a boost building map with very low timing can be handled a couple different ways. However more timing has always worked so I've never experimented with the low timing set up used by the clutch cars. Spool time without using a 3 step is a non issue. I never roll into staging at idle so optimizing spool time from an idle isn't a concern. I get on a 3 step before lighting the bottom bulb to minimize spool time.

Thats pretty reliable info right there. Thanks for sharing Dusty!! Mike