Time to go stage II with A/C!

[Alky V6]

How is this latest strategy comparing to past strategies? That's what you should be looking at very closely.
What is the change in the boost rise curve?
What is the change in rpm rise curve?
What is the change in launch ready rpm and boost levels?
How close are you to dangerous detonation levels with the different strategies?
Is running that close to detonation levels worth the gain that you are receiving from that particular strategy?

 

[Alky V6]

I agree with Alan on the stall speed, but I'd like to see some 60' datalogs before I pulled the trigger on that.

 

[norbs]

Glad to see some progress. Looks very promising. I think the converter could be a tad bit looser .

AG

I might have to talk to Dusty if he has any suggestions. I know I had a looser converter in the car at one time and the gear vendor did not work very well it would not drop rpm in OD highway speeds.

 

[norbs]

How is this latest strategy comparing to past strategies? That's what you should be looking at very closely.
What is the change in the boost rise curve?
What is the change in rpm rise curve?
What is the change in launch ready rpm and boost levels?
How close are you to dangerous detonation levels with the different strategies?
Is running that close to detonation levels worth the gain that you are receiving from that particular strategy?

I really don;t have the answers right now except the difference in spool time, the timing averaged 5 degree increase between 0-4 psi the two spool methods, and the af about .5 leaner.

 

[Alky V6]

I really don;t have the answers right now except the difference in spool time, the timing averaged 5 degree increase between 0-4 psi the two spool methods, and the af about .5 leaner.
View attachment 187094

Between these two, it's obvious the latest test is much better.
What is the final timing number when you hit the peaks?

 

[norbs]

Between these two, it's obvious the latest test is much better.
What is the final timing number when you hit the peaks?

Timing around 10 psi boost is about 26 degrees and about 24 at 12 psi this on 94 octane fuel.

 

[CGASTON]

I have an excel file with detailed lobe lift per every 2 degrees for that particular lobe. Data was taken from another cam we were using to collect data.
Allan G.

Can I get a that excel file?

Sent from my iPhone using Turbo Buick

 

[turbobitt]

Can I get a that excel file?

Sent from my iPhone using Turbo Buick

It is attached in one of the previous post. This was just luck that I had this lobe data and a free-be for Norbs. Anyone else I wouldn't give out this hard earned data. Bison and I have been working in a side project and accumulated some pretty interesting cam data.
AG

 

[Alky V6]

Looks good, Norbs. Good work.

 

[norbs]

Looks good, Norbs. Good work.

No, its not good its got a slightly lean spot on the initial hit and goes lean at 5000 rpm it correcting 18 %, AF is not steady My knock box is lighting up like a Xmas tree, and the XFI is picking up NO knock, but I will sort it out eventually. I have not even turned on the wastegate yet either. Cal hartline would laugh at this tune However I do appreciate your support, your questions got me thinking...

 

[Alky V6]

You're making good progress. Don't sell yourself short. I know you'll get it straightened out.

 

[HighPSI]

Cal hartline would laugh at this tune

No I wouldn't. I'm not that way. I appreciate the effort and see some progress.
You need to figure out the disparity between the xfi and safeguard. You and another guy have slowly turned me into a fan of that device.
In my opinion, you need to lower the timing until the knock is under control. Even if the cam is bleeding off some of the cylinder pressure at that rpm, the pump gas fuel probably can't take that much timing.

 

[BlownV6]

Norbs, Looks much better , but way to lean. The idea of more timing is to burn more fuel at lower cylinder pressures. You added the timing but also took away the fuel. I would move that AF target up to at least the base line AF. With more fuel and the timing you should make more exh energy to spool the turbo. The stragity you have there might actually work with a better grade of fuel but as you figured out obviously thats pushng a it past the limit on 94 octain. More fuel please!!
Thanks for posting your journey. We ave all learned from this experiene!!! Thanks Mike

 

[Alky V6]

More timing will increase peak cylinder pressures and combustion temperatures. Leaning the fuel will increase cylinder temperatures, and hopefully exhaust temps. Monitoring exh temps would be very interesting data at this point in your journey.
Adding more fuel would tend to lower cylinder temps and exh temps. Counter to what you need to spool the turbo.
But, adding more fuel will increase the mass of combustion by-products, which tends to help spool up. The fine line you're searching for is the balance between having enough combustion by-products mass and cylinder/exhaust temperature.
Theoretically, adding timing should increase cylinder temps and lower exhaust temps, and lowering timing should lower cylinder temps and increase exhaust temps. But lowering the timing will net less work in the cylinder from the combustion process. Less work transferred to the crank and less work gotten from the mixture overall. Here again, you are looking for a balance of enough timing to get the most work from the mixture and to the crank, and maintain an effective exhaust temperature.
Like Mike stated, searching for a tune that is pushing cylinder pressures and temperatures will need the proper octane fuel.

 

[norbs]

No I wouldn't. I'm not that way. I appreciate the effort and see some progress.
You need to figure out the disparity between the xfi and safeguard. You and another guy have slowly turned me into a fan of that device.
In my opinion, you need to lower the timing until the knock is under control. Even if the cam is bleeding off some of the cylinder pressure at that rpm, the pump gas fuel probably can't take that much timing.

I have figured it out I had an improper gain settling on the analog set up for the JS knock channel , I fixed it now, I will have to re-test. I have also added some numbers to the VE table so it should see more fuel next test. I have EGT data but I don;t see that much different between low and high timing on the ramp up. egt's look a bit lower on the higher timing.. I really appreciates everyone;s help on tuning.

 

[Alky V6]

It looks like you're getting more benefit by working the mixture in the cylinder, getting better rpm rise and hence an increasing level of combustion by-products with more timing while sacrificing some exhaust temperature. Interesting stuff, norbs.

 

[Alky V6]

I'm wondering if you could get the same performance with 2 or 3 degrees less timing. Try to target the least amount of timing advance that might give you the same performance.
I like the target a/f in the later test, but not the actual.

 

[norbs]

I'm wondering if you could get the same performance with 2 or 3 degrees less timing. Try to target the least amount of timing advance that might give you the same performance.
I like the target a/f in the later test, but not the actual.

Ya it looks like the extra timing is too much at 0 psi boost, and the VE map was way lean so that's why its way off target. Its a new combo and I had to guess at the ve numbers, they now have been bumped up, so I need to re-test.

 

[norbs]

Next spool test I will have the JS knock box data in the picture, it would be interesting to see by reducing the timing if the knock its picking up is really knock?

 

[Alky V6]

Check your valve adjustments, first.