To sleeve or not to sleeve

[Eticket]

Very close friend has an off-center block needing a couple of sleeves, maybe more. Anyone have any experience with this as far as downsides and power handling capability?

I believe the bores have a few dings but need to take a closer look.

Advice is appreciated.

 

[Chris Hogeland]

Very close friend has an off-center block needing a couple of sleeves, maybe more. Anyone have any experience with this as far as downsides and power handling capability?

I believe the bores have a few dings but need to take a closer look.

Advice is appreciated.

If done right it can even be stronger with sleeves.

 

[Eticket]

I've heard that, just haven't heard of many guys with sleeved motors putting out any HP, but i guess we'd never know eh?

Chris, small world, I've heard you'd done a little work on my old car.

 

[bison]

I've heard that, just haven't heard of many guys with sleeved motors putting out any HP, but i guess we'd never know eh?

I know the quickest TSO engines have sleeves on all 6 holes. Putting out enough hp to trap 170+mph

 

[norbs]

I've seen them buckle and crack at even low hp 500 rwhp , what was the cause is not known.

 

[Eticket]

I know the quickest TSO engines have sleeves on all 6 holes. Putting out enough hp to trap 170+mph

well.. not sure if sleeves in an aluminum block designed for them is any different?

 

[750H.P.V6]

Done correctly it should be fine. Make sure the machinist leaves a step at the bottom of the bore for the sleeve to seat on. Once it's installed and bored / honed it will be difficult to tell by looking in the bore itself. I wouldn't hesitate to go this route.

Neal

 

[Alky V6]

The deck of the block is partially supported by the walls of the bore. If the original bore material is bored too thin in the sleeving process, and big cylinder pressures are expected, it's very possible the original bore material will crack. Much like why the thin block material on the outside of the block (water jacket) will sometimes crack.

That's interesting that some feel a sleeved block is stronger. Just how is that so?

 

[charlief1]

The sleeves are generally made out of a better casting or design than the original block which means the sleeve is better than the block it's installed into. One thing I'll point out is that quite a few blocks are sleeved from the factory including the TA V6 block. If the work's done right then the cylinder may be the strongest part of the block.

 

[Alky V6]

The sleeves are generally made out of a better casting or design than the original block which means the sleeve is better than the block it's installed into. One thing I'll point out is that quite a few blocks are sleeved from the factory including the TA V6 block. If the work's done right then the cylinder may be the strongest part of the block.

The sleeve may contain cylinder pressure better, but how does it help support the deck any better with the lost original material?

Let's not forget that a sleeved aluminum block is designed with the sleeve in mind and that there is a lot of material behind the sleeve to back it up, AND support the deck of the block.

 

[turbobitt]

The sleeves are generally made out of a better casting or design than the original block which means the sleeve is better than the block it's installed into. One thing I'll point out is that quite a few blocks are sleeved from the factory including the TA V6 block. If the work's done right then the cylinder may be the strongest part of the block.

Don't want to enter into a debate but I feel Don may be right. The aftermarket aluminum blocks were design for sleeves so the area around the deck could be strengthened to supplement for the sleeves.
I'm very skeptical when people say the sleeve is better. That may be true but stronger doesn't always mean better. The wear properties of cast iron are favorable for ring seal and therefore sleeve may not be better.

Just something to think about.

Allan G.

 

[charlief1]

The sleeve may contain cylinder pressure better, but how does it help support the deck any better with the lost original material?

Let's not forget that a sleeved aluminum block is designed with the sleeve in mind and that there is a lot of material behind the sleeve to back it up, AND support the deck of the block.

Not arguing that at all Donnie. My point here is that you can get different sleeves in different thicknesses so if the shop knows what it's doing and the blocks a good one you can end up with a bore section that's stronger than the block itself. A lot of diesels have a non supported sleeve and all it does is go into a hole in the deck and at the bottom near the crank. They're pretty stong engines and to replace the sleeve you use a hammer and punch to drive them out and press the new one in with the head. Yes, I've done a few of them.

 

[750H.P.V6]

I'm not convinced I'd want to sleeve all 6 cylinders intentionally. I've always viewed installing a sleeve as a repair process for a cylinder that was otherwise damaged to a point that you couldn't bore it to clean it up. As far as causing a loss instructural integrity it's a valid argument. I think it would be a larger concern if we are talking about a 3.8 liter block that doesn't have the siameese bore casting.

Neal

 

[Eticket]

SO, let's stay off of arguing with each other.. anyone have any real experience with running a sleeved BMS off-center block and any issues or not afterwards?

Thanks

 

[750H.P.V6]

SO, let's stay off of arguing with each other.. anyone have any real experience with running a sleeved BMS off-center block and any issues or not afterwards?

Thanks

My buddy had an On center block with a sleeve in it. It ran fine that way for better than 10 years. He ended up selling the car but I suspect it's still going strong. Mike Edwards is building a motor as we speak that has a sleeve in it. If it was of any concern I'm sure he'd but another block.

Neal

 

[norbs]

Here's a pic of some sleeves ...........

 

[Mike E]

My buddy had an On center block with a sleeve in it. It ran fine that way for better than 10 years. He ended up selling the car but I suspect it's still going strong. Mike Edwards is building a motor as we speak that has a sleeve in it. If it was of any concern I'm sure he'd but another block.

Neal

Yes, I'm going to be running an on-center block with a sleeve. I'm shooting for 1000 hp right now, but I think my motor is good for ~1500 hp and the sleeve doesn't bother me one bit. You might be suprised how many stage blocks have sleeves. You probably haven't heard of many because it's not something people announce regularly because if done right it's not a concern.

Read the description of both of these motors that were for sale. http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/any-interest-in-going-fast-8-sec-street-car.317585/
These were some of the fastest iron block, production head motors around. Both made big power and one of them is probably about to be the highest hp production head motor. Both shortblocks have sleeves.

 

[fog]

I have 5 sleeves. Last sleeving at #1 made the #3 sleeve come loose. Attached some loctite sleeve retainer and in it went. Held up to 900hp and will be tortured 1100+ next year.

I have used Melling CCSL136HP sleeves all the time, worked like a charm all the time. Talk to Dan at melling, he has done wonders for me. Going back-and-forth to mail office 3 times to get me the best price/money shipping and so forth.

 

[Eticket]

Yes, I'm going to be running an on-center block with a sleeve. I'm shooting for 1000 hp right now, but I think my motor is good for ~1500 hp and the sleeve doesn't bother me one bit. You might be suprised how many stage blocks have sleeves. You probably haven't heard of many because it's not something people announce regularly because if done right it's not a concern.

Read the description of both of these motors that were for sale. http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/any-interest-in-going-fast-8-sec-street-car.317585/

These were some of the fastest iron block, production head motors around. Both made big power and one of them is probably about to be the highest hp production head motor. Both shortblocks have sleeves.

Thanks Mike, I'm somewhat familiar with Chris. Bought some old bogarts from him and have talked to him on occasion.

I did get some advise from my engine builder on what to look for.

 

[stagemonster]

i have an 0016 4.1 with a 4.125 bore other than that the block is perfect. was thinking of sleaving it down to 4 inch but wasnt sure if it was worth it