Bad news upon pulling motor today

[Phoneguy]

It sucks that happed. Was it aklys fault? Guess something has to take the blame. Right? Now that everyone has re assured your suspicions, you can rest easy knowing you have the root of the problem pinpointed. :tongue:

Chapter 2 coming soon.

If you would read the thread I placed the blame on the boost controller not the ALKY. It is my choice to remove the ALKY from the equation at this time. Many may disagree...I could care less. By the way this was chapter 4.

 

[chops]

Am sure you have your own and good enough reasons for removing the alky brian no need to explain its your money your car you've been through a lot with this car already am sure the decision your making is the right one for you

 

[Alky V6]

The problem with using a beefier ground strap plug is that when you do get in trouble with your tune up, the plug does not melt as easy as an NGK. Better to have it show up sooner on an NGK and know the tune up is off and fix it rather than continue to soften up the aluminum of the piston.

If the tops of my pistons are softened, well,... at least the engine is still running and hasn't ruined the whole short block. Inspection with a borescope is showing normal appearance of the top of the pistons. The engine does have a lot more runs on it since that leaning incident, and the pistons are due to be changed out with the upcoming PM anyway.

When tuning methanol, the ground strap is used to judge the timing setting. After that is figured out and set, there is little need to monitor it.
The fuel strength, if using the spark plug alone to judge it (a/f meter can be used too), is monitored by the amount of plating that is burned off the top of the threads and in some case, into as far as the first 3 threads of the plug. The ground strap is not used to judge fuel strength with an alcohol engine. So why would someone want that strap sticking out there to possibly cause a preignition condition. Preignition with alcohol is very nasty.

Better to have it show up sooner on an NGK and know the tune up is off and fix it rather than continue to soften up the aluminum of the piston.

Once you know how to read the O2s for an engine with a tight tuneup, you don't need the spark plug to verify. If you're talking about a new engine combination and you're experimenting with different settings, then spark plug reading is an important clue. But, if the engine tuneup is set, and you're only monitoring for changes, you don't want that fuse in the chamber to go off if a fuel problem occurs. The O2 will let you know if there's a problem well enough.

 

[TurboBuRick]

If you would read the thread I placed the blame on the boost controller not the ALKY. It is my choice to remove the ALKY from the equation at this time. Many may disagree...I could care less. By the way this was chapter 4.

Sorry Bry, my bad. :redface: Everyone else got me going. I took a pill now I'm doing a little better. :tongue:

 

[Phoneguy]

Sorry Bry, my bad. :redface: Everyone else got me going. I took a pill now I'm doing a little better. :tongue:

I am on beer 4, its all good.

 

[chops]

Beer #4 brian that explains last night 3. 1/2 hour chat lmao

 

[RIFF RAFF]

This will

I am on beer 4, its all good.

MAKE YA FEEL BETTER ALSO .. I WENT TO PICK UP MY HURST OLDS FROM MY ENGINE BUILDER TODAY.WHEN I GET THERE THE HOOD IS OPEN AND THE FENDERS ARE COVERED LIKE ANY GOOD SHOP WOULD DO .START THE CAR UP AND WAS ALL SMILES .I THEN SAY LET ME TAKE IT FOR RIDE .WE START TO PULL THE COVERS OFF THAT HAVE BEEN THERE SINCE SEPTEMBER OF LAST YEAR. LOW AND BEHOLD THE FENDERS CRUSHED IN & THE BUMPERS BENT . I GUESS ONE OF HIS TECHS WAS USEING MY CAR AS THE BRAKES FOR THE FORK LIFT WHEN HE BROUGHT IT IN AT NIGHT . HE SAYS HES GOING TO MAKE IT RIGHT. I ASKED HIM ARE YOU GOING TO FIND ME ANOTHER HURST OLDS THATS NEVER BEEN WRECKED ? WITH 67000 MILES ALL ORIGANAL WITH A BRAND NEW 450HP STROKER ORIGINAL HEADS & BLOCK . I DONT THINK SO!!

 

[SloGN]

Bryan


I have a spare std bore 109 block if ya need it!

 

[Phoneguy]

Bryan


I have a spare std bore 109 block if ya need it!

Thanks, much appreciated. I will keep that in mind.

 

[Phoneguy]

MAKE YA FEEL BETTER ALSO .. I WENT TO PICK UP MY HURST OLDS FROM MY ENGINE BUILDER TODAY.WHEN I GET THERE THE HOOD IS OPEN AND THE FENDERS ARE COVERED LIKE ANY GOOD SHOP WOULD DO .START THE CAR UP AND WAS ALL SMILES .I THEN SAY LET ME TAKE IT FOR RIDE .WE START TO PULL THE COVERS OFF THAT HAVE BEEN THERE SINCE SEPTEMBER OF LAST YEAR. LOW AND BEHOLD THE FENDERS CRUSHED IN & THE BUMPERS BENT . I GUESS ONE OF HIS TECHS WAS USEING MY CAR AS THE BRAKES FOR THE FORK LIFT WHEN HE BROUGHT IT IN AT NIGHT . HE SAYS HES GOING TO MAKE IT RIGHT. I ASKED HIM ARE YOU GOING TO FIND ME ANOTHER HURST OLDS THATS NEVER BEEN WRECKED ? WITH 67000 MILES ALL ORIGANAL WITH A BRAND NEW 450HP STROKER ORIGINAL HEADS & BLOCK . I DONT THINK SO!!

I feel your pain!!!

2 years ago I was having my lawn aerated, the GN was in the driveway to be washed. I let the guy get done with the yard before I go out to wash the car. I grab the hose from the reel and start towards the car and see a dent in the drivers quarter, I look at the dent and its got green paint on it, same color as his machine. I'm pissed!!! I look the car over some more, not only did he hit the quarter, he hit the door...TWICE. I immediately call this guys cell phone...no answer. I called 5 more times...no answer. Called the local PD. Officer McDonald shows up sees the damage and says " this is a civil case, you may have to take him to court, but that don't mean I can't fvck with him" The cop calls the cell number and says " this is officer McDonald with the Ofallon Police, you have exactly 5 minutes to call me back at this number or I am coming looking for you " His phone rang inside of 30 seconds. The guy claims that he was going to come back later and he knew that he damaged my car !! His insurance adjuster came over and said he was going to give me like $350.00 ! I said do you realize that your insured just damaged a 43k mile original car? Long story there, I had to get my insurance company involved to show them it's insured for $30k.
Good luck with yours, sucks to hear it.

Bryan

 

[rmar]

I'm telling ya B that damn thing is cursed,cursed I tell you....

 

[Phoneguy]

I'm telling ya B that damn thing is cursed,cursed I tell you....

Aint that the truth.

 

[Phoneguy]

Ronnie, I will give you a buzz tomorrow to see if you are going to be around this weekend for me to drop in. Might as well get some powder coating done while it's down.

 

[SloGN]

The temperature that methanol dissociates is not too far off from the autoignition temperature of the fuel. Like I stated, it's all about compression and combustion temperature control with methanol.

Look at the preignition temperatures of gasoline compared to methanol. Gasoline does burn hotter than methanol AFTER the start of combustion. After the spark event. Preignition is a condition that occurs before a spark event.
If after a spark event the temperature of the charge is such that all the methanol has already dissociated and done what it could do to cool the charge and the start of the combustion process, then that becomes a dangerous situation. You want to have some methanol still pre-dissociated during the combustion process to help cool the combustion process itself and maintain combustion temperature control.
Once methanol dissociates, you have carbon monoxide and HYDROGEN! If there is a lot of hydrogen in the charge with little methanol to help control combustion temps, well, you know.

To answer your last question.
I use an a/f meter (wideband) that is calibrated to readout gasoline numbers. You have to remember that an O2 sensor is only reading stray oxygen molecules after combustion. It doesn't care what the fuel was or its true stoich ratio. It's just looking for stray oxygen. The amount of stray oxygen after the combustion of any fuel is very similar. Even if burning nitro.
I use my meter using the readout numbers as if I were burning gasoline.
A good full power target ratio for me is 10.8-11.3:1. A good idle ratio is 11.8-13.3:1. Any leaner than that at idle and I have coolant temp problems. I do now run an electric fan, but my grill is completely blocked off. I use the a/f ratio at idle to help with engine temperature control.
A good cruise a/f ratio is 12.8-13.3:1.
You see. It's not too much different than the numbers you would shoot for with straight gasoline. A little richer at idle and cruise, strictly for temperature control.

To expand on this point. When you are burning gasoline, compression and combustion temps are running in a higher temperature bracket compared to a straight methanol engine.
In a gasoline/methanol mix, the methanol is used to cool the charge during compression and combustion. But remember, temperatures are working in a bracket that is higher than a typical methanol engine. There comes a point where the temps will be too high for the methanol to control to a safe level, because the gasoline just insists on burning at that higher level. That's where the power is with that fueling combination. And hence, the temptation.

Thanks for the great info!!!

 

[8 SEC 109]

I would dump that ALKY and switch to E85. It seems like some Heavy Hitters are having success with it.

 

[lazaris]

If the tops of my pistons are softened, well,... at least the engine is still running and hasn't ruined the whole short block. Inspection with a borescope is showing normal appearance of the top of the pistons. The engine does have a lot more runs on it since that leaning incident, and the pistons are due to be changed out with the upcoming PM anyway.

When tuning methanol, the ground strap is used to judge the timing setting. After that is figured out and set, there is little need to monitor it.
The fuel strength, if using the spark plug alone to judge it (a/f meter can be used too), is monitored by the amount of plating that is burned off the top of the threads and in some case, into as far as the first 3 threads of the plug. The ground strap is not used to judge fuel strength with an alcohol engine. So why would someone want that strap sticking out there to possibly cause a preignition condition. Preignition with alcohol is very nasty.

Once you know how to read the O2s for an engine with a tight tuneup, you don't need the spark plug to verify. If you're talking about a new engine combination and you're experimenting with different settings, then spark plug reading is an important clue. But, if the engine tuneup is set, and you're only monitoring for changes, you don't want that fuse in the chamber to go off if a fuel problem occurs. The O2 will let you know if there's a problem well enough.

The ground strap is used read timing in gasoline as well..
If your melting it your tune up is off.. PAS
O2 will not tell you if your over timed...
Engine tune up changes. Weather and track conditions will dictate that from the base setting.

 

[SGRIM]

Wow, such a popular thread!

To save any new readers several pages of reading, it was the BOOST CONTROLLER:biggrin: Lesson, get a GOOD ONE

 

[Alky V6]

The ground strap is used read timing in gasoline as well..
If your melting it your tune up is off.. PAS
O2 will not tell you if your over timed...
Engine tune up changes. Weather and track conditions will dictate that from the base setting.

After years of running NGKs and monitoring them in my engine, I have learned that my base tune which is now very tight, needs little to no changes at the few tracks that I've been to. I run the fueling and the timing both with a little safety cushion. I've found that the ground strap with the NGKs was not offering any useful information anymore. The plating on the other hand still does give me good clues. I made the decision to remove the NGKs because of the problems that were occurring with them that other monitoring methods were also able to warn me of. This was shown to me more than just a few times. There was no good reason to have two monitoring methods telling me the same thing, especially when one of the methods was a deadly fuse in my combustion chamber.
I know I have already eluded to this before, but I'll state this again. Since switching to the different plugs, I have been through situations that I am sure would have resulted in at least a blown up porcelain with the NGKs which would have forced me to pull the motor, dig the porcelain off the chamber and piston surfaces, and between the valves and valve seats, and maybe even replace the turbine wheel of the turbo. BEEN THERE, DONE THAT with the NGKs. The new plugs have taken the punishment much, much better. I'm not talking theoretical here, the proof is in the pudding. With the extreme luck I've been having with these plugs I will not switch back to NGKs, unless I get the itch to experiment with new timing settings. The timing table is set, it works well at the few tracks and different altitudes I've been to, and that's that.
I know the true blue NGK fans out there are having a hissy fit over my switching, but let me add just one more thing, my engine is still together and running like a champ. She is past due for a PMing, but she's hanging in there just fine, and I attribute much of that to the fact that these new plugs have not forced me to have to pull the engine any sooner.

Lazaris, you are more than welcome to keep running the plugs you're using. You will not talk me into switching back to the nightmare. I hope you don't use long ground electrodes with nitrous, too.

 

[Alky V6]

You'd be surprised what you can read on that short electrode if you just give it a try. :wink:
You can dip half your finger in the pudding to get a taste of it, or you can just touch it with the TIP of your finger to get a taste.

 

[Alky V6]

If your melting it your tune up is off.. PAS

Yes. That's pretty obvious. I've been running the same timing curve since the beginning. The only variable that has gotten me into trouble with the NGKs has been playing around with the fueling and nitrous tune. Other things will melt the ground strap besides just timing.

On the run in my sig, there was a hole in the line to my fuel pressure regulator, and a wire terminal had burned on the relay controlling my fuel pump voltage booster. That was not a tuning mishap of my making. That was simply equipment malfunctioning over time. Two malfunctions happening at the same time. A true recipe for disaster. If someone had told me that I would be making a pass with those two things going on, I would have told them to get out the broom, you're going to be picking up pieces.
Imagine my relief when I returned to the pits and pulled the plugs. An Angel was on my shoulder that day.