tb.com nats proposed new heads up class "Grim's Real Street"

[Nick Micale]

I would like to offer additional comments about this proposed class, but first I must say I would LOVE to see a Real Street class and proposed this years ago at a major Buick event, but it was shot down because it was felt not enough owners would participate. Well, times have changed, many current owners do not feel like they must have the fastest car, but would like to have fun without breaking the bank or their car.

So my first comment is if the proposed class is low to mid-10's, this IS race car territory. Major carnage is not just possible, but WILL happen.

The stock engine and the trans can be happy in the 11's, 10's not so much.

Most tracks enforce safety, and roll bars are needed faster than 11.50, so are we still talking "REAL" Street if we are mixing race and street cars? Go into the 10's and the safety parts list gets longer and more expensive.

It would be nice if we could do a True Street class like NHRA did years ago, most of you guys have no clue about that, but I did race a stock SS 409 for a season! But most GN's are not stock, but close enough.

So how do we configure this class?

Tires first, street tires no larger than 2 sizes over stock, wheels no larger than 8", stock is 7".

Car weight, most GN's are 3700-3800 with driver and fuel, so somewhere in that range.

Turbo, here is the tough one, not many original turbos left on most of our cars. I would say a max of a TA-49, but since the TE-44 uses the same wheels, they would be allowed.

As far a pump gas, alky, E-85, race gas, all are used on the street so who really cares.

There may be a couple other minor items to add, but now we have an affordable class with one BIG variable - the driver! :biggrin:

I hope this does not offend Shane or Clint, but I truly think current GN/TR owners might consider to participate in a REAL FUN class in which their car needs little or no mods? Am I off-base with this thinking or what do you want?

 

[Sydwyndr]

Not off base at all, just remeber Nick these are basic rules to begin with and modifications need to be made from there. Of course the weight maybe too light. I do agree with maybe 2 sizes over stock tire, something like a 234 or 245 series tire. And who really cares about a rim size, that in itself makes it no less of a street car. Maybe put all cars on a 235 tire (drag radials ok), now that is interesting. Someone brought up a stock unopened motot but how would you police that?? I see no simple way of doing so. Also along the lines of the turbo, limiting it to a 49 would make a class for stock to 49 turbo, leave out turbos from 50-62 series?? Guys with 63-67 turbos have a place to go however someone with a PTE52 turbo cant run THS cause they would be way behind and now couldnt run the real street class because there turbo is slightly larger than a 49. Your intent is great dont get me wrong but then we are taking away some racers IMO... PTE has several turbo choices in the 50 and 60MM range.

 

[SGRIM]

It all comes down to the combo & tune... Has their not been 49's in the 10's?

I would actually like to have a 52 max class but I don't think there is enough cars to facilitate breaking it down but so far... Heck I built a car to run Nicks TSF class that year. A car built specifically around a stock turbo and I really think we could have put up an incredible number with that combo...

Great input guys, lets keep it rolling!

 

[charlief1]

I would like to offer additional comments about this proposed class, but first I must say I would LOVE to see a Real Street class and proposed this years ago at a major Buick event, but it was shot down because it was felt not enough owners would participate. Well, times have changed, many current owners do not feel like they must have the fastest car, but would like to have fun without breaking the bank or their car.

So my first comment is if the proposed class is low to mid-10's, this IS race car territory. Major carnage is not just possible, but WILL happen.

The stock engine and the trans can be happy in the 11's, 10's not so much.

Most tracks enforce safety, and roll bars are needed faster than 11.50, so are we still talking "REAL" Street if we are mixing race and street cars? Go into the 10's and the safety parts list gets longer and more expensive.

It would be nice if we could do a True Street class like NHRA did years ago, most of you guys have no clue about that, but I did race a stock SS 409 for a season! But most GN's are not stock, but close enough.

So how do we configure this class?

Tires first, street tires no larger than 2 sizes over stock, wheels no larger than 8", stock is 7".

Car weight, most GN's are 3700-3800 with driver and fuel, so somewhere in that range.

Turbo, here is the tough one, not many original turbos left on most of our cars. I would say a max of a TA-49, but since the TE-44 uses the same wheels, they would be allowed.

As far a pump gas, alky, E-85, race gas, all are used on the street so who really cares.

There may be a couple other minor items to add, but now we have an affordable class with one BIG variable - the driver! :biggrin:

I hope this does not offend Shane or Clint, but I truly think current GN/TR owners might consider to participate in a REAL FUN class in which their car needs little or no mods? Am I off-base with this thinking or what do you want?

I'm not much of a racer at the moment but I think Nick has a very valid point here. Most of the cars really aren't going to go more than 11:50 because of putting a bar or cage in them. The 86-87 cars can do it fairly easily but then the HA cars (all of them) seem to struggle to get to this point. Most of us that own a TR are older now, and while power is addicting, it's also expensive if you don't do the work yourself. The realistic point here is if you want a 10 second car you can have it but most guys are more interested in a car that can be driven on a daily basis if needed and have a cool factor because it's unique.

Not saying lower the bar, but remember, most of the stock cars by todays standards really aren't that fast.

And I do remember the "pure stock" class Nick I actually thought about running in it in the 80's.:biggrin:

 

[Mike Licht]

Any class with Street in the name is destined to fail because we always see posts like the ones that are already here in this thread about "that is not a Street car" This is about racing right? If you want a successful heads up class it is easy, the less rules the better, more guys can play, keep the cars on the slow side and when you do have rules make the affordable. In that sprit I will throw my .02 into the mix. The proposed turbo is too big, make the limit a TE44 with .63 housing, tons of them out there for sale, cheap even a new one is $699 if that too much then you should not be RACING heads up. Next issue is traction, max drag radial size 235, or 295 non drag tire. Next is weight make them heavy, 3600 is easy for anyone to get to with driver. If you really want to make them competitive require a 2.5" catalyic converter, that is cheap and easy to hang off almost any down pipe and easy to tech with a cheap temp gun. Lots of cars can play and lots of fun. Let Don Cruz hang a Te44 on his car with a 2.5" cat and run with a small tire if he wants to play
Mike

 

[charlief1]

Any class with Street in the name is destined to fail because we always see posts like the ones that are already here in this thread about "that is not a Street car" This is about racing right? If you want a successful heads up class it is easy, the less rules the better, more guys can play, keep the cars on the slow side and when you do have rules make the affordable. In that sprit I will throw my .02 into the mix. The proposed turbo is too big, make the limit a TE44 with .63 housing, tons of them out there for sale, cheap even a new one is $699 if that too much then you should not be RACING heads up. Next issue is traction, max drag radial size 235, or 295 non drag tire. Next is weight make them heavy, 3600 is easy for anyone to get to with driver. If you really want to make them competitive require a 2.5" catalyic converter, that is cheap and easy to hang off almost any down pipe and easy to tech with a cheap temp gun. Lots of cars can play and lots of fun. Let Don Cruz hang a Te44 on his car with a 2.5" cat and run with a small tire if he wants to play
Mike

I'd say a dual 2.5" or a single 3" exhaust Mike. 3" downpipe or smaller as well. As far as the cat working, it really shouldn't matter whether it's there or not, but it does keep it in line with a "stock" class.:smile:

My smiley are working now.:biggrin: Thanks to Jay!

 

[TURBO 6]

Any class with Street in the name is destined to fail because we always see posts like the ones that are already here in this thread about "that is not a Street car" This is about racing right? If you want a successful heads up class it is easy, the less rules the better, more guys can play, keep the cars on the slow side and when you do have rules make the affordable. In that sprit I will throw my .02 into the mix. The proposed turbo is too big, make the limit a TE44 with .63 housing, tons of them out there for sale, cheap even a new one is $699 if that too much then you should not be RACING heads up. Next issue is traction, max drag radial size 235, or 295 non drag tire. Next is weight make them heavy, 3600 is easy for anyone to get to with driver. If you really want to make them competitive require a 2.5" catalyic converter, that is cheap and easy to hang off almost any down pipe and easy to tech with a cheap temp gun. Lots of cars can play and lots of fun. Let Don Cruz hang a Te44 on his car with a 2.5" cat and run with a small tire if he wants to play


Mike

Very good idea.

 

[Otto J]

Patrick at PTE stated that 10.60 would be working that turbo to death,What else??

I beg to differ

Open that rule to 4" x 2.5 "and I have a car that would like to be there.

 

[Mike Licht]

I'd say a dual 2.5" or a single 3" exhaust Mike. 3" downpipe or smaller as well. As far as the cat working, it really shouldn't matter whether it's there or not, but it does keep it in line with a "stock" class.:smile:

My smiley are working now.:biggrin: Thanks to Jay!

The cat has nothing to do with it being "stock" (see this is where that word get us in trouble everytime) it has everything to do with corking up the car, making backpressure to eliminate the benifits of lots of engine work, getting rid of race gas and making more guys competitive regardless of how much money others spend. It is also an easy mod that a guy can do cheap and take off after the race without having to rebuild his car.
Mike

 

[Mike Licht]

I beg to differ

As do I

 

[bison]

The 6262 went 10.50's on an unopened engine. I hardly think it's out of steam. On a 9.5:1 engine with some tweaking it will make more. It could support 9sec power. The old pt54 has been 10.30's. Thats a 60-1 with a 69 ex wheel. 131+.

 

[1hitnt]

My father and i were at the tbnats last and this year. we ran my fathers 85t with the bbb we had a blast but like my father was saying it would be nice to have a few bracket classes.We had a few friends running bbb but that did not fit in a index class so they ran fri and headed home sat. My father was running the 6.99 class cause that just happened to be what his car ran. I myself am building a ths car but if it falls short of being competitive i am goin to just bracket race it. sorry if this is the wrong place for this but just wanted to put the idea out there. Thanks Terry Crouch

 

[bison]

.

 

[TurboDave]

Talking pure stock sure resurects some old memories!! I used to race IHRA K/PSA (pure stock automatic) for the first several years of my 86's life!!! Only mods allowed were a chip and sticky tires.

 

[1hitnt]

. problem

 

[Sydwyndr]

Im seeing alot of good information coming from this thread, I have seen 2 recommendations for small tire. Dont really care about cat conv however Mike makes a good point to try and "drag an anchor" to slow this class down as well with a smaller turbo. Also rool bar/cage is not an issue in NC. I have spoken to the owner and explained these cars were faster than his current track roll cage rule and he agreed to let it slide. Doesn't mean that you can run low 6's without one either.. Helmet is recommended up to 7.99, required. We understand we can't make rules for everyones specfic combo but keeping it as simple as we can here are some changes...
.5 Pro tree / Pro ladder
----------------------------
1. 3600lb Car/Driver
2. Buick Regal / TTA
3. Turbo V6 (no stage or TA blocks) no nitrous. E85 ok, Alky spray ok, race gas ok
4. Turbochargers up to and including 49mm inlet - .63A/R - E cover (3x2) 3 bolt.
5. Tires up to and including 235 series (drag radials ok, no slicks)

The intent is to include as many cars as we can. If you have a larger turbo than is listed here then I promise you will have a class you can run in NC, PLUS none of the above rules are absolute, only suggestions made here within this thread. There will be 3 index classes (8.49, 7.49, 6.49) and I'm thinking 2 bracket classes (delay boxes, no delay boxes)

 

[John Wilde]

4. Turbochargers up to and including 49mm inlet - .63A/R - E cover (3x2) 3 bolt.

There is a little confusion here.
A TE44 or TA49 have 58MM compressors.
I think you should limit the turbine wheel to the 62 max.
It would be interesting to see what a 5862 or 6262 could do.

 

[jetmech]

You have to think about, is there that many people that run a 49 and smaller turbo racing there cars at a drag strip. I know the speeds would go up w/ a 62 but you include so much more people. I personally dont care if i got beat by a 10.60 car as long as the field has a large car count and i have fun. Heck my motor has 128k on the bottom end and im only running 11.20's. Remember alot of people have the right parts but cant run the number to support those parts but would be very happy joining in on a class like this. Were not doing it for the money but car count and fun. Simple rules, turbo, weight, tire size. Thanks and i hope this class takes off like tsm did back in the day.

 

[Sydwyndr]

4. Turbochargers up to and including 49mm inlet - .63A/R - E cover (3x2) 3 bolt.

There is a little confusion here.
A TE44 or TA49 have 58MM compressors.
I think you should limit the turbine wheel to the 62 max.
It would be interesting to see what a 5862 or 6262 could do.

John take a look at the beginning post as the 62 is proposed in the beginning. That was my initial thinking as well

 

[Mike Licht]

I will give you my reasoning on the 44. If you make it a 6262 that is what people will have to buy and that is a faily expensive turbo. It will make this a mid 10 or better class for sure. A 44 can be bought cheap, there is one in the for sale for $400 and a guy can have the "best" to be competitive. While I agree it would be "interesting" Bison has already shown us what can be done. This should be about racing and having fun not a test of parts. Make something that the most people can join in on and feel like they have a chance to actually compete and win. That's my opinion at least.
Mike