tb.com nats proposed new heads up class "Grim's Real Street"

[Nick Micale]

I will give you my reasoning on the 44. If you make it a 6262 that is what people will have to buy and that is a faily expensive turbo. It will make this a mid 10 or better class for sure. A 44 can be bought cheap, there is one in the for sale for $400 and a guy can have the "best" to be competitive. While I agree it would be "interesting" Bison has already shown us what can be done. This should be about racing and having fun not a test of parts. Make something that the most people can join in on and feel like they have a chance to actually compete and win. That's my opinion at least.
Mike

I do know that 44/49 have a 58mm wheel, and that, plus the reasons Mike pointed out is why this should be the turbo limit.

Again, a 10 sec. car is not a REAL STREET car.

This is a class trying to attract a turbo Buick owner to participate where he, or she, will have minimal chance of going beyond a limit the stock drivetrain and other components, and to have fun with their daily driver. Basically what we should have is a class that does NOT attract racers, but the average GN owner.

I am happy to see Mike agrees with the same plan.

 

[SGRIM]

Well my whole goal with this class was to capture the true street car crowd so... Something where as many people as possible with the "average" modified TR can compete and have a realistic chance... No matter the limit someone is going to go all out, I say that is just part of racing Should be some super fast spooling cars!

Oh, and by street car I don't feel like that has to mean street tires... That is what the TSR class is for...



You experts can hash out the turbo size

 

[SloGN]

Clint this sounds interesting and all but lets just keep to Shane real street 7.49 class must have a weight of 3600lbs and a tire no larger than a 245 drag radials and no slicks.

That keeps the simple stuff like rules easy to follow and even easier to tech.


Guys my car has been a best of 6.76 @ 103 with a 5 yr old 6152e non billet non ball bearing.




Also who is gonna be doing the turbo policing? is someone gonna make some go no go gauges like in TSM. I hate to say this but who is really gonna tell the truth when asked at tech?

there is the first problem when limiting to turbo/wheel sizes.........

 

[John Wilde]

I do know that 44/49 have a 58mm wheel, and that, plus the reasons Mike pointed out is why this should be the turbo limit.

Again, a 10 sec. car is not a REAL STREET car.

This is a class trying to attract a turbo Buick owner to participate where he, or she, will have minimal chance of going beyond a limit the stock drivetrain and other components, and to have fun with their daily driver. Basically what we should have is a class that does NOT attract racers, but the average GN owner.

I am happy to see Mike agrees with the same plan.

Ok so lets make the compressor limit 59 MM.
That way you can get the TE60, TE44 and 58 CEA in.
Patrick at Precision really wants to see a 5862 CEA on a Buick.
Who is going to step up and test one?

 

[Sydwyndr]

ok alot of good ideas flowing around here. So lets see what a different set of rules would look like and this would be in essence to keep the class slow per say:

1. 3600lb Car/Driver
2. Buick Regal / TTA
3. Turbo V6 (no stage or TA blocks) no nitrous. E85 ok, Alky spray ok, race gas ok
4. OPTION 1: Turbochargers up to and including TA/TE44
4. OPTION 2: Limited to stock fuel injectors only
5. drag radials up to 235, standard radials up to 275

 

[charlief1]

I do know that 44/49 have a 58mm wheel, and that, plus the reasons Mike pointed out is why this should be the turbo limit.

Again, a 10 sec. car is not a REAL STREET car.

This is a class trying to attract a turbo Buick owner to participate where he, or she, will have minimal chance of going beyond a limit the stock drivetrain and other components, and to have fun with their daily driver. Basically what we should have is a class that does NOT attract racers, but the average GN owner.

I am happy to see Mike agrees with the same plan.

Agree 100% Nick. This isn't about speed or times but participation of the owners.:smile:

Ok so lets make the compressor limit 59 MM.
That way you can get the TE60, TE44 and 58 CEA in.
Patrick at Precision really wants to see a 5862 CEA on a Buick.
Who is going to step up and test one?

If Patrick made one that would fit on a carb turbo car then I'd be interested in it.:biggrin:

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

ok alot of good ideas flowing around here. So lets see what a different set of rules would look like and this would be in essence to keep the class slow per say:

1. 3600lb Car/Driver
2. Buick Regal / TTA
3. Turbo V6 (no stage or TA blocks) no nitrous. E85 ok, Alky spray ok, race gas ok
4. OPTION 1: Turbochargers up to and including TA/TE44
4. OPTION 2: Limited to stock fuel injectors only
5. drag radials up to 235, standard radials up to 275

Do lighter cars get a penalty?
i do like the smaller turbo direction
but
don't like the stock injector thing

 

[Sydwyndr]

Do lighter cars get a penalty?
i do like the smaller turbo direction
but
don't like the stock injector thing

What kind of weight are you referring too?? My 87 T with all its factory aluminum stuff on it with 1/4 tank of gas with me in it weighs around 3650.

 

[TurboDave]

Are there really much more than 6 T/R owners left that still have stock injectors in there car??? Oh sure, I know several that do, but they would never consider racing their cars. The one's I know are low mile show queens.

 

[Mike Licht]

stock injectors becomes a test of tech and tuning while trying to not blow your car up, it is a science project, limit the air and let them throw fuel which is safer on parts, limiting the fuel becomes a tech nighmare will cause many meltdowns and expensive blowups. I see guys with stock injectors and 12 alky nozzles with 3 pumps trying to get down the track
Mike

 

[Mike Licht]

I do know that 44/49 have a 58mm wheel, and that, plus the reasons Mike pointed out is why this should be the turbo limit.

Again, a 10 sec. car is not a REAL STREET car.

This is a class trying to attract a turbo Buick owner to participate where he, or she, will have minimal chance of going beyond a limit the stock drivetrain and other components, and to have fun with their daily driver. Basically what we should have is a class that does NOT attract racers, but the average GN owner.

I am happy to see Mike agrees with the same plan.

Nick, you and I have discussed this beofre and seen the potential in this for years. for some reason it gets clouded up with rules, politics or self serving interest every time. Too bad because and easy to get into and affordable heads up deal has lots of potential. Index is great but I for one have no interest in brackets.
Mike

 

[Sydwyndr]

Nick, you and I have discussed this beofre and seen the potential in this for years. for some reason it gets clouded up with rules, politics or self serving interest every time. Too bad because and easy to get into and affordable heads up deal has lots of potential. Index is great but I for one have no interest in brackets.
Mike

Mike this is exactly what we are trying to avoid, lets make a simple class with a few rules that will encompass the GN that is parked in the spectator lot with its owner sitting in the stands just watching. Have to get them out of the stands and onto the track. In NC Nick is putting together a "training class" if you will to teach people how to stage their car, how to leave the line, and have fun going down the track. Cars will be able to have a passenger "Nick" as well as others and he will teach them the ins and outs on from the green light to the finish line. Simple and easy to understand. NC is all about learning, in almost every aspect

 

[SGRIM]

I am going to agree and say we try to agree on a turbo size limit and go from there...

 

[TurboDave]

Nick, you and I have discussed this beofre and seen the potential in this for years. for some reason it gets clouded up with rules, politics or self serving interest every time. Too bad because and easy to get into and affordable heads up deal has lots of potential. Index is great but I for one have no interest in brackets.
Mike

As one who raced brackets for MANY years, (and Index's) the two should not be confused as the same. They aren't.

 

[Mike Licht]

I am going to agree and say we try to agree on a turbo size limit and go from there...

Thats one of the problems, there is never going to be an agreement evenyone wants to use what is on their car. You guys are putting this together, just pick and make it happen. Just remember whatever you pick as the biggest allowable will be what 90% of the guys will want to use so make it easy for them
Mike

 

[Mike Licht]

As one who raced brackets for MANY years, (and Index's) the two should not be confused as the same. They aren't.

I understand that Dave I just want to line up and go let the best man win with no worry of breakout or going to fast. My preference in racing.
Mike

 

[SGRIM]

Thats one of the problems, there is never going to be an agreement evenyone wants to use what is on their car. You guys are putting this together, just pick and make it happen. Just remember whatever you pick as the biggest allowable will be what 90% of the guys will want to use so make it easy for them
Mike

Tricky for sure...

I was hoping someone from PTE would jump in and give some guideance...

Mike, as a retailer, what is the turbo you sale the most for this type of combo?

 

[KevinB]

Just for reference, last year my setup went low 11's with:
Te44
unopened engine
3600lbs
3" dp
Fmic
race gas

255/60 dr.

I think that would be an interesting class. Car could have gone faster if I stuck with it a little longer.

 

[Mike Licht]

Tricky for sure...

I was hoping someone from PTE would jump in and give some guideance...

Mike, as a retailer, what is the turbo you sale the most for this type of combo?

Best selling "street" turbos are TE44 (yes still) , 62's and 67's. Kevins post shows exactly what I mean here stock motor 44 going low 11's, how much faster do you think it would be with heads, cam and stroker crank? Not a ton because the turbo is running out of steam. The question is how fast do you want the class? How hard do you want it for people to play? Lets face the fact, no matter what you pick a majority of the people who will join in will likely have to buy some parts, turbo and tires at least. make it easy for them and more will do it.
Mike

 

[KevinB]

Best selling "street" turbos are TE44 (yes still) , 62's and 67's. Kevins post shows exactly what I mean here stock motor 44 going low 11's, how much faster do you think it would be with heads, cam and stroker crank? Not a ton because the turbo is running out of steam. The question is how fast do you want the class? How hard do you want it for people to play? Lets face the fact, no matter what you pick a majority of the people who will join in will likely have to buy some parts, turbo and tires at least. make it easy for them and more will do it.
Mike

And that was with the wastegate held shut with a big brake spring running about 30 psi. Wouldn't go any higher. I couldn't see a stroker with killer heads going much faster. The 44 would definitely make having a race engine not important imo. Now a 6262 or whatever size would probably benefit from a built engine, making the class less appealing for the stock type cars.
I say, te44, 3650 lbs, no bigger than 275 dr or 8.5 slick, no nitrous, everything else is fair game. Easy rules, hard enough to go 10.9 on the combo but easy enough to go high 11's. Perfect class in my opinion.


Edit: I think wieght is the most important part. Most unmodified tr's with drivers seem to be 3650+. Making it less than that means gutting stuff or going with fiberglass parts....not appealing for what you guys are trying to pull off.