tb.com nats proposed new heads up class "Grim's Real Street"

[Sydwyndr]

And that was with the wastegate held shut with a big brake spring running about 30 psi. Wouldn't go any higher. I couldn't see a stroker with killer heads going much faster. The 44 would definitely make having a race engine not important imo. Now a 6262 or whatever size would probably benefit from a built engine, making the class less appealing for the stock type cars.
I say, te44, 3650 lbs, no bigger than 275 dr or 8.5 slick, no nitrous, everything else is fair game. Easy rules, hard enough to go 10.9 on the combo but easy enough to go high 11's. Perfect class in my opinion.


Edit: I think wieght is the most important part. Most unmodified tr's with drivers seem to be 3650+. Making it less than that means gutting stuff or going with fiberglass parts....not appealing for what you guys are trying to pull off.

Nice, I tend to agree. I have a set of 275dr on a stock 7" t wheel and they work great.
Anyone else??

 

[charlief1]

Just for reference, last year my setup went low 11's with:
Te44
unopened engine
3600lbs
3" dp
Fmic
race gas

255/60 dr.

I think that would be an interesting class. Car could have gone faster if I stuck with it a little longer.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Most of the cars are going to go this fast or slower. The difference is for the first time a B4black car has made it into the 11's.:biggrin: Granted, it was on nitrous but it was also with a turbo350 and 2.41 gears. I have no doubt tha with a little work and without nitrous one of us will make it there on a regular basis, but these are street cars that get driven to shows, get groceries, pick up kids, ect. That's really the ones you need to be attracting here. The non purpose built car that is for fun and not for racing. No trailer queens that have full cages ect, but normal street cars that are driven on a fairly regular basis.:smile:

 

[Sydwyndr]

With those that have replied and / or given input so here seems to be a close idea:

.5 Pro tree / Pro ladder
----------------------------
1. 3600lb Car/Driver
2. Buick Regal / TTA - (Hybrid cars that meet the 4 other rules should be allowed)
3. Turbo V6 (no stage or TA blocks) no nitrous. E85 ok, Alky spray ok
4. Turbochargers up to and including TA/TE 44
5. Tires ?? A real street class should use a street tire so I say regular radials up to 275 and drag radials up to 235?? Maybe 255

 

[KevinB]

Don't require hvac systems either. When I was a teen back in the 90's, I wanted to race a buick class at bg so bad but my 85 ttype I swapped an 87 drivetrain in didn't have ac. That sucked. I remember looking up and asking people on the old gnntype list about it and catching he'll for not having ac. I was freaking 17....people were rough on that list back then lol.

 

[TurboDave]

Just for reference, last year my setup went low 11's with:
Te44
unopened engine
3600lbs
3" dp
Fmic
race gas

255/60 dr.

I think that would be an interesting class. Car could have gone faster if I stuck with it a little longer.

You went deep 11's with that setup and pushing 30# of boost.
Just for comparison purposes. Mine went:

11.60's @ 117+

TE44
unopened engine
3800#
3" dp
fmic
race gas
255/60 dr

27# boost.

The 44 or similar size would be a nice starting poing. Even with a built engine I think it's running out of ooomph at much over 28# of boost.

 

[KevinB]

You went deep 11's with that setup and pushing 30# of boost.
Just for comparison purposes. Mine went:

11.60's @ 117+

TE44
unopened engine
3800#
3" dp
fmic
race gas
255/60 dr

27# boost.

The 44 or similar size would be a nice starting poing. Even with a built engine I think it's running out of ooomph at much over 28# of boost.

Me being 200 lbs lighter and 3 more psi makes sense. I was running 27 degrees of timing also fwiw and a 1.5x 60. Think exact time was 11.2@119

 

[TurboDave]

Me being 200 lbs lighter and 3 more psi makes sense. I was running 27 degrees of timing also fwiw and a 1.5x 60. Think exact time was 11.2@119

Cool beans!! I was also running 27* of timing, but wasn't cutt'n no 1.5's. Best I could do was high 1.6's

As a matter of contrast, and I know nobody gives a crap, but this very same car and setup

running straight 93 octane
21# of boost
real street tires (firestone firehawks)
1.8 60'

runs 8.0 in the 1/8, which I think equates to something near a mid 12in the 1/4. Had to de-racify it.
That's what happens when one finds themselves on a limited, fixed income. Breaking parts in no longer an option.


Sorry for the hijack guys, I'll jump back out.

 

[KevinB]

Cool beans!! I was also running 27* of timing, but wasn't cutt'n no 1.5's. Best I could do was high 1.6's

that was the best pass out of probably 200 last year. Lots of mid 11's were run to get that best et.


Clint, I think the 44 limit is looking good. Next thing to do is find the racers though. I am giving my $.02 but really have no intentions on running it bc ths is where I am at.

 

[Mike Licht]

With those that have replied and / or given input so here seems to be a close idea:

.5 Pro tree / Pro ladder
----------------------------
1. 3600lb Car/Driver
2. Buick Regal / TTA - (Hybrid cars that meet the 4 other rules should be allowed)
3. Turbo V6 (no stage or TA blocks) no nitrous. E85 ok, Alky spray ok
4. Turbochargers up to and including TA/TE 44
5. Tires ?? A real street class should use a street tire so I say regular radials up to 275 and drag radials up to 235?? Maybe 255

I like where your at here. Hybrid cars?, sure why not were not snobs here are we? If it has a Buick V6 motor and can meet the other rules bring it. Tires, two ways to loko at that, small 235 makes the street tire guy more competitive, if your going bigger just go 275, everyone will use them, lots of guys have them and the cars will be easier (safer) to get down the track. I think 235 is a nice little challange that makes this more interesting but that is just my opinion. If I can find a decent car that I can afford I may even race in this, sounds like fun to me.
Mike

 

[SGRIM]

I like 275 my self...

 

[charlief1]

Don't require hvac systems either. When I was a teen back in the 90's, I wanted to race a buick class at bg so bad but my 85 ttype I swapped an 87 drivetrain in didn't have ac. That sucked. I remember looking up and asking people on the old gnntype list about it and catching he'll for not having ac. I was freaking 17....people were rough on that list back then lol.

I would say that no AC/heat delete plates but compressor doesn't have to be on it. Mine won't have AC until I get everything back together and running right first. I can deal with the outside temps because the windows work.

 

[TurboBob]

the 16" wheel guys (like me) are generally using the 255 size drag radial.

Bob

 

[Sydwyndr]

.5 Pro tree / Pro ladder
----------------------------
1. 3600lb Car/Driver
2. Regal / TTA / Hybrids
3. Turbo V6 (no stage or TA blocks) no nitrous. E85 ok, Alky spray ok
4. Turbochargers up to and including TA/TE 44
5. Tires up to and including 275 series, no slicks

All cars must be weighed in during peer tech, All cars must cross scales after each quailifying and elimination round. Failure to do so will result in disqualification..

 

[jetmech]

I think that is the next question. How many people race their cars that have a 44 on it. Is there enough to get the car count? That could be a seperate thread to see how many people are going to race in this class w/ a 44. Good thread and sounds like a good idea for a new class to keep the rules to a minimum.

 

[Sydwyndr]

I think that is the next question. How many people race their cars that have a 44 on it. Is there enough to get the car count? That could be a seperate thread to see how many people are going to race in this class w/ a 44. Good thread and sounds like a good idea for a new class to keep the rules to a minimum.

That is a good point and I thought about that as well, what I figures is that there are TONS of 44's out there. The reason you dont see them is that they are no longer popular. Think about the new flat screen TV's. Everyone has a dinosaur hidden in the basement or somewhere out of the way because alot of people no longer use then doesn't mean there not readily available. My guess there are 44's up in attics, in spare parts bins or covered by other parts long since forgotten. Once the rules get finalized I bet you in the parts for sale / wanted sections you will start to see them appear quickly

 

[Dusty Bradford]

I would say that no AC/heat delete plates but compressor doesn't have to be on it. Mine won't have AC until I get everything back together and running right first. I can deal with the outside temps because the windows work.

I'm not pointing you out so don't take this the wrong way......but this is a classic example of things that have hurt turnout in the past. Many people are guilty of it. You don't have functioning a/c and have no a/c compressor so you don't think those should be a requirement but you don't want anyone removing the a/c box. Classic example of wanting the rules around their own car. If a car meets weight, does it really matter if it has a/c or not? How about a 69 Camaro with a V6 engine....it may not have air and want to compete. Minimum rules are the way to go. Limit hp and tire size with a weight rule and let it go.

The meaningless non performance rules are what hurts turnout and the GSCA was notorious for it.

 

[charlief1]

I'm not pointing you out so don't take this the wrong way......but this is a classic example of things that have hurt turnout in the past. Many people are guilty of it. You don't have functioning a/c and have no a/c compressor so you don't think those should be a requirement but you don't want anyone removing the a/c box. Classic example of wanting the rules around their own car. If a car meets weight, does it really matter if it has a/c or not? How about a 69 Camaro with a V6 engine....it may not have air and want to compete. Minimum rules are the way to go. Limit hp and tire size with a weight rule and let it go.

The meaningless non performance rules are what hurts turnout and the GSCA was notorious for it.

Don't get me wrong Dusty. I live in Texas and I do want AC on the car. Getting everything back together is more important to me right now though. The compressor could just be dummied up but the compressor really doesn't weigh that much by itself. That's all I was saying. Removal off all of the AC/heat system would lighten up the car but removal of one part isn't really going to change it that much to make it an advantage for anyone.

And I know you're not singling me out.:smile:

 

[TurboDave]

There is nothing in the rules about A/C, (SEE POST #73) so it's a non arguement. If some competitor can't meet the weight requirement because he removed all the A/C then he'll just have to add some weight somewhere else.

Don't make this a big deal.

 

[Sydwyndr]

don't think Charlie meant anything by it. I understand his reasoning yet no performance advantage/disadvantage in any way. Charlie are you coming to NC and if so will you be running one of these classes??

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Don't get me wrong Dusty. I live in Texas and I do want AC on the car. Getting everything back together is more important to me right now though. The compressor could just be dummied up but the compressor really doesn't weigh that much by itself. That's all I was saying. Removal off all of the AC/heat system would lighten up the car but removal of one part isn't really going to change it that much to make it an advantage for anyone.

And I know you're not singling me out.:smile:

I sure wasn't.... just using it as an example of things that have happened in the past.