The StageI rebuild begins!

[turbofabricator]

Here is a StageI 4.1 Stroker that use to run 10.2's @ 134.8 on pump gas and Alky before it was involved in a "little" garage fire. My friend Dennis Hogan's StageI stroker 4.1, along with 2 other very nice Turbo Buicks, were involved in a serious fire last June '09. I just finished the "stocker" rebuild (11.30's @119) and now am starting the Stroker 4.1 for his replacement race car. I will keep posting pictures as it is tore down and checked for "issues". Hopefully it will be OK inside. It has an RJC girdle, one sleeve, Full Throttle roller cam, ported intake by Dale Robertson, ported GN1's by John Haskel, Diamond pistons, stock ECM, Eric Marshal Chip, single Walbro 340, Precision SLIC. All of the periferals are GONE!! Hopefully the internals will be good. The stock block was fine.

 

[8UWITH6]

That makes me a sad panda

 

[blackgn1]

What are you going to do to combat the cracking between the freeze plugs on the Stage 1 block. I am very interested since I have a Stage 1 block and have been seeking answers to this problem. I see were some have "pinned" the freeeze plugs but I don't think that will solved the block cracking. It would solve the possible wild ride at the top end if they blew out. You could tap the block there and install a drain. Just wondering what you will come up with to fix this possible problem?:biggrin:

 

[turbofabricator]

So far, this block has not had the freeze plug cracking problem. After the fire I will have to magnaflux the block and check for cracks. This block has been run for years with no cracking issues. The only issue was a damaged cylinder that required sleeving. (lean issue causing a notch to be burnd in the bore) Pinning the crack and doing a half fill with HArd Block should cure any cracking issue. Remember, a StageI block is a rejected off-center StageII. Core shift, and/or other issues made them a StageI instead of a StageII. I've seen head bolt holes that look like a porcupine after installing studs. I've also seen 109 blocks with crooked head bolt holes, too. I've had to use self aligning washers to torque the heads down.

 

[blackgn1]

Would a half block fill cure the cracking for sure? I would think that doing this would only cause over heating in daily drivers in extreme heat enviroments. It's interesting that stage 1 blocks are blocks that weren't up to Stage 2 standards. Makes you wonder if they are anymore rigid than 109 Girdled blocks. I always thought that if the stage 1 had a girdle it would be a very strong foundation.

 

[charlief1]

WOW! You've got your work cut out for you Ken. Good luck.

 

[$1987 GN$]

Have fun.

A fire always makes it look so bad.
Still a lot of work.
Looks like most of the heat was to the front of the car.


Later AJ

 

[Boost231]

lots of cleaning and it will look like new. good luck cant wait to see what it looks like once you get it cleaned up

 

[LOT]

misinformation

I believe that once you disassemble the Stage I block you will see that a Stage I and Stage II are not the same block. Also hard blocking will make the oil and the bottom 1/3 of the cyl. bore, which is cooled by oil, run hotter--no reason the water won't run the same temp. as before.

 

[Dynalow00]

Rebuild

Ken, how did the head repair go? I know Dennis was concerned about it, but I haven't talked to him in a while... good luck with the rebuild, keep the pictures coming!! :biggrin:

 

[rtviper]

Is the stage 2 motor next?

 

[turbodave231]

I believe that once you disassemble the Stage I block you will see that a Stage I and Stage II are not the same block. Also hard blocking will make the oil and the bottom 1/3 of the cyl. bore, which is cooled by oil, run hotter--no reason the water won't run the same temp. as before.

From my observations, I believe the S1 and S2 blocks were made from the same casting. I've owned 3 different Stage 1 4.1 blocks and a couple Stage 2's. Both the Stage 1 and Stage 2 blocks had the 0016 casting number. The castings are identical. The machining is quite different. The Stage 1 blocks are machined just like a stocker. There are many machining differences in the S2 blocks.

I have no experience with any 3.8 S1 or S2 block...... I never owned any 3.8 stage blocks.

Dave

 

[LOT]

I thought

All Stage I blocks had the oil pickup like a production block--if so it would be a different casting.

 

[turbofabricator]

The StageII is 3rd/4th on the list. His stroker 109 is in front of the StageII. Then there is the chassis boxing and frame rail narrowing, tubular front and rear suspension, stainless brake and fuel lines, painting, welding up un-needed holes, rear end inspection and clean up/paint, and a few gussets to strengthen things a bit.
The GN1 head (for his stroker 109) would not seal up with an epoxied tube in the spark plug hole. The crack radiates into the plug seat radius. He talked with Champion and they are going to machine the plug boss completely out and weld it back up and re-machine it. The StageI GN1's also have a crack in the same place. So far, coolant tabs have worked, but it caught fire after only a few hundred miles, or so. One set of GN1's are 14 bolt and the other set are 8 bolt. We might be sending two heads to Champion for weld-up. I'd like to watch them do that weld job. My 250 TIG would probably weeze half way through it. Then it would end up leaking worse than before. Guys that can successfully weld that kind of stuff piss me off.

 

[blackgn1]

So what the offical final word. I think we have been through this decussion before. Is a Stage 1 and Stage 2 off center the same block other than the extra head bolt provisions and four bolt mains? I will follow this engine build with great intrest.

 

[LOT]

If

So what the offical final word. I think we have been through this decussion before. Is a Stage 1 and Stage 2 off center the same block other than the extra head bolt provisions and four bolt mains? I will follow this engine build with great intrest.

The stage I has 2 bolt mains and the stage II has 4 bolt center main(which I believe to be the case)--then I would call that a different block. Definately not cast from the same mold. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I also thought they had different oil pickup locations.

 

[geno]

Dennis need to just give me that stage 2 engine for a backupI built it so i think he should just give it to me LOL Its worn out after 97 passes anyways right.. Hehe. He sure has had a lot of bad luck these days. I feel for the guy (I still think he should give me that stage 2 motor for safe keeping) LOL JK Dennis

 

[turbofabricator]

Dennis need to just give me that stage 2 engine for a backupI built it so i think he should just give it to me LOL Its worn out after 97 passes anyways right.. Hehe. He sure has had a lot of bad luck these days. I feel for the guy (I still think he should give me that stage 2 motor for safe keeping) LOL JK Dennis

So......if "YOU" built it, it's worn out after 97 passes? If "I" built it it would be good for at 98 passes. (After dissassembly, the StageII may be for sale. I told him that he should slide the GN1 heads on it and use it instead of the sleeved StageI. The StageII is on-center, though, so it would need a different manifold. He hasn't made a decision on whether to keep it or sell it to you.

(just for the record, Geno and I are good friends, and I was only pokin' fun at him. I was NOT dissing his engine building skills. He's GOOD. {but I'm better}Ha.......Ha........:biggrin

 

[ijames]

The stage I has 2 bolt mains and the stage II has 4 bolt center main(which I believe to be the case)--then I would call that a different block. Definately not cast from the same mold. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I also thought they had different oil pickup locations.

You can find discussions of this in the stage ii forum archives, and pictures at Turbo Regal Web Site. The stage i and stage ii blocks are the same casting. The stage i's were machined for 2 bolt (cast) main caps, stock oil pickup boss location, and the extra head bolt bosses were not drilled and tapped but are there so most users drilled and tapped them so they could use 14 bolt heads. The stage ii blocks were machined for 4 bolt steel caps at least (which means more of the block webbing was cut away to make room for the cap which is why the block casting could be the same; later ones got more and more cross bolted 6 bolt caps), some had an oil pickup boss at the front for a wet sump and some had no internal pickup provision for dry sump only, and all 14 head bolt holes were drilled and tapped. Each production run of stage II blocks seemed to have its own set of tweaks and improvements. I don't remember if any of the off-center stage ii's got six bolt caps or if those only came later in the on-center blocks.

 

[geno]

(just for the record, Geno and I are good friends, and I was only pokin' fun at him. I was NOT dissing his engine building skills. He's GOOD. {but I'm better}Ha.......Ha........:biggrin

Your a X friend now and you might be better than Dan but not me:biggrin:LOL
Come by the shop after work sometime i need to talk to you..