what about TST (True Street Turbo) class?

[garyk1970]

I was in another thread and this idea was born.a class for street cars ,simular to TSA,but very relaxed...doesnt have to be a 100% stock ,concourse car..something for a true street car, beginner,or stock looking,sounding car.
limit the turbo and injector size.input here....ta 49/44?? or stock appearing....
stock rear,
stock 200 r4 trans.
Stock location any brand ic.
any down pipe.
any exhuast.
gages ok...
Alky ok.
race gas ok.
No stg2.
109 blocks only.
What about fiberglass body parts?
Must be stock bodied.
ac operating. input??? maybe ac parts there??
all glass intact.
all stock intieror intact.
Any paint condition ok.
any wheels.matched set.wider rears ok..
no slicks or drag radials.
chrome parts ok.
window tint ok.
stereo systems ok.
wideband ok.
scanmaster ok.
power logger ok...
stock ecm?? input.....
any iron heads ok...no allum...
stock intake ,tb,dog house.
power plates ok...

Input?

 

[GNBRETT]

I think there are too many classes already

 

[charlief1]

Just make it stock block Gary. A 109 block would limit it. I'd say stock appearing turbo as well. Boxed frame's ok as well.

 

[garyk1970]

I think there are too many classes already

i agree some.....but theres nothing for me without stepping up to race a 9 or 10 sec car?

Just make it stock block Gary. A 109 block would limit it. I'd say stock appearing turbo as well. Boxed frame's ok as well.

ok.....boxed frame ok..i see the saftey benefit,and car would still be stock appearing..

 

[bison]

Anything that is registered and can be street driven. This must be proven. Any fuel ok unless you make it 93 only since e85 is a street fuel but its not available everywhere and would be a huge advantage if used. Limiting the turbine to a t31 or a 57 f1 would keep the power down. All steel with a/c in place. 200 4-r/8.5". Any street legal tire. It would still be a 10.7-10.8 class but a lot more could compete. Then again those that don't have $15k to spend to be competitive would still bitch. Too many classes already and none are very appealing.

 

[Sydwyndr]

Make it really simple:

A/C
109
62 or smaller 3 bolt turbo (small shaft)
3400 min weight car/driver

forget the rest of that stuff. Who cares if the car has matching rims, boost gauge, or 200 tranny. None of that makes it no less of a street car. I would stay away from street tires as TSR will have that in 2012. Simple rules means more participation.

 

[charlief1]

Make it really simple:

A/C
109
62 or smaller 3 bolt turbo (small shaft)
3400 min weight car/driver

forget the rest of that stuff. Who cares if the car has matching rims, boost gauge, or 200 tranny. None of that makes it no less of a street car. I would stay away from street tires as TSR will have that in 2012. Simple rules means more participation.

Good idea but you've just shot a buch of stock guys out with the 109 rule Clint. Change that to a stock RWD 3.8 block and you've just added a lot of other cars.

I think Gary is trying to simplify the rules so more cars can run. By limiting it to just 109 blocks that means a bunch of cars are excluded or owners will have to buy 109's and build a new engine.

 

[SGRIM]

Well this is a good a place as any...

I have been thinking about a new class myself...

No name yet but so simple a kid could do it:biggrin:

Weight

Buick Regal

109

Small Journal turbo

SLIC

Race

 

[forcefed3.8's]

Class racing is the downfall of the community. Classes cause too much drama, and in the end, the guy with the deepest pockets wins. This class sounds like the TSS class that has died off.
IMO the TSO and TSM cars are put on a pedistal. Alot of egos within the classes, but in the bigger picture of stock suspension, drag radial and 10.5 tire classes, these cars can't hold a candle to what is really out there. Not trying to take anything away from what these cars are doing in the Buick world. In the real world, these cars are puppies running with wolves. I love the turbo Regals, but am in touch with reality. They aren't the only cars on the road. Now I do believe these cars are partially responsible for alot of turbo and suspension technology we see. How many 9 or 10 sec V8 cars were untubbed in the 90's?
Class racing would be fun if people were good sports. Alot of fast guys turn their noses up at the guys just starting out and running 12's, 11's, 10's. They have forgotten how much fun their car was getting it to that point, and how much more fun the car was when it ran low 11's, high 10's. The fighting within the classes is the worst part of it all. Everybody should be helping each other out for the advancement of the sport and TR community.

 

[KevinB]

Problem you have limiting turbo size is that everyone will need to take the cover off to put rings on the wheel. That will be a pita at peer tech. That's why the 67 with a 3x2 housing rule in ths is great. You can't get an off the shelf 70 in a 3x2 cover. The 3x2 is probably the limiting factor anyways. Makes peer tech easy.
Any heads up class with any downpipe and aftermarket intercoolers will have 10 second cars. I almost went a 10.9 with a 44 on a bone stock engine on 255/60 radials.
I think you guys should try to refine the tsr rules and run that at more than one event.

Here's the thing....you will never have a class that makes everyone happy. You will always have a few run away with the class you are always going to have that guy with a bigger turbo wanting in a class....same with transmission and rear end. Another issue is if try to slow the cars down after the first year, you get called out on it. Also, don't plan on racing in your own class, look what people said in the ths rule thread to the class creator.
What's wrong with ths? No 9 second passes this year at an event that I am aware of.

 

[jetmech]

I 100% agree with these rules as there are alot of cars running around in this trim now.Make it simple. Make weight, limit turbo to 62ish , and tire size. Even air conditioning who cares , Try it if it doesn't work then scrap it. allow the hot air cars in too.

Make it really simple:

A/C
109
62 or smaller 3 bolt turbo (small shaft)
3400 min weight car/driver

forget the rest of that stuff. Who cares if the car has matching rims, boost gauge, or 200 tranny. None of that makes it no less of a street car. I would stay away from street tires as TSR will have that in 2012. Simple rules means more participation.

 

[SGRIM]

Make it really simple:

A/C
109
62 or smaller 3 bolt turbo (small shaft)
3400 min weight car/driver

forget the rest of that stuff. Who cares if the car has matching rims, boost gauge, or 200 tranny. None of that makes it no less of a street car. I would stay away from street tires as TSR will have that in 2012. Simple rules means more participation.

Dman't I didn't read down far enough:biggrin: I knew you were going to like it!

 

[jetmech]

I think that is what the op is trying to come up with a high 10 low 11 sec class. that is what the majority of "street cars " are runing. You guys in ths in the heat are running 10.2 that will be 9's in cool weather and that is out of range of most people.

Problem you have limiting turbo size is that everyone will need to take the cover off to put rings on the wheel. That will be a pita at peer tech. That's why the 67 with a 3x2 housing rule in ths is great. You can't get an off the shelf 70 in a 3x2 cover. The 3x2 is probably the limiting factor anyways. Makes peer tech easy.
Any heads up class with any downpipe and aftermarket intercoolers will have 10 second cars. I almost went a 10.9 with a 44 on a bone stock engine on 255/60 radials.
I think you guys should try to refine the tsr rules and run that at more than one event.

Here's the thing....you will never have a class that makes everyone happy. You will always have a few run away with the class you are always going to have that guy with a bigger turbo wanting in a class....same with transmission and rear end. Another issue is if try to slow the cars down after the first year, you get called out on it. Also, don't plan on racing in your own class, look what people said in the ths rule thread to the class creator.
What's wrong with ths? No 9 second passes this year at an event that I am aware of.

 

[garyk1970]

Make it really simple:

A/C
109
62 or smaller 3 bolt turbo (small shaft)
3400 min weight car/driver

forget the rest of that stuff. Who cares if the car has matching rims, boost gauge, or 200 tranny. None of that makes it no less of a street car. I would stay away from street tires as TSR will have that in 2012. Simple rules means more participation.

scotts' class is excellent,but with no restriction on turbo size and other speed parts puts it light years above this class.....these rules with turbo limit are a diffrent ballgame..regular street tires are a must to slow this class down....remember,beginners class....i just want the class to look most like a stock TR simular to the TSA class...

Good idea but you've just shot a buch of stock guys out with the 109 rule Clint. Change that to a stock RWD 3.8 block and you've just added a lot of other cars.

I think Gary is trying to simplify the rules so more cars can run. By limiting it to just 109 blocks that means a bunch of cars are excluded or owners will have to buy 109's and build a new engine.

yes,i mean any non-stg engine rwd 3.8 iron head engines...stroked ok....roller ok.....stock valve covers??

Well this is a good a place as any...

I have been thinking about a new class myself...

No name yet but so simple a kid could do it:biggrin:

Weight

Buick Regal

109

Small Journal turbo

SLIC

Race

very simple...i like...

Class racing is the downfall of the community. Classes cause too much drama, and in the end, the guy with the deepest pockets wins. This class sounds like the TSS class that has died off.
IMO the TSO and TSM cars are put on a pedistal. Alot of egos within the classes, but in the bigger picture of stock suspension, drag radial and 10.5 tire classes, these cars can't hold a candle to what is really out there. Not trying to take anything away from what these cars are doing in the Buick world. In the real world, these cars are puppies running with wolves. I love the turbo Regals, but am in touch with reality. They aren't the only cars on the road. Now I do believe these cars are partially responsible for alot of turbo and suspension technology we see. How many 9 or 10 sec V8 cars were untubbed in the 90's?
Class racing would be fun if people were good sports. Alot of fast guys turn their noses up at the guys just starting out and running 12's, 11's, 10's. They have forgotten how much fun their car was getting it to that point, and how much more fun the car was when it ran low 11's, high 10's. The fighting within the classes is the worst part of it all. Everybody should be helping each other out for the advancement of the sport and TR community.

there will be rules,but relaxed.....each group of that events' racers can make rulings if need to...all will disscuss "issues" as a group and decided then and there.

Problem you have limiting turbo size is that everyone will need to take the cover off to put rings on the wheel. That will be a pita at peer tech. That's why the 67 with a 3x2 housing rule in ths is great. You can't get an off the shelf 70 in a 3x2 cover. The 3x2 is probably the limiting factor anyways. Makes peer tech easy.
Any heads up class with any downpipe and aftermarket intercoolers will have 10 second cars. I almost went a 10.9 with a 44 on a bone stock engine on 255/60 radials.
I think you guys should try to refine the tsr rules and run that at more than one event.

Here's the thing....you will never have a class that makes everyone happy. You will always have a few run away with the class you are always going to have that guy with a bigger turbo wanting in a class....same with transmission and rear end. Another issue is if try to slow the cars down after the first year, you get called out on it. Also, don't plan on racing in your own class, look what people said in the ths rule thread to the class creator.
What's wrong with ths? No 9 second passes this year at an event that I am aware of.

will a stock appearing turbo cover all these bases too?

Dman't I didn't read down far enough:biggrin: I knew you were going to like it!

I think that is what the op is trying to come up with a high 10 low 11 sec class. that is what the majority of "street cars " are runing. You guys in ths in the heat are running 10.2 that will be 9's in cool weather and that is out of range of most people.

correct...

 

[KevinB]

There are 66mm stock appearing turbos out there. I also tried that on my old setup for one time out. Pretty sure one could get that in mid 10s with a good setup.

 

[SGRIM]

I brought this up to Clint yesterday. This is the first of two classes I would like to see. Rules should be a simple as pie... Weight, turbo limit, Make and Model, SLIC...

The weight is the biggest limiter, IMO. You can shift it around to your advantage but it is racing. I don't care if they got an entire fiberglass car as long as it weighs the #! IMO the less rules the better... I sent a message to Patrick at PTE as I would like to talk to them about coming up with a turbo size limit that would accommodate most street cars... Someone is always going to rise to the top, that is life... You can't make it but SO even... I rather have a big wide open class where there is more opportunity for all different types of combinations to be used... From 49's to 62, something you don't have to go into the motor really to be able to compete and have a chance...

 

[forcefed3.8's]

Stock appearing TA66 Q trim has been 10.1x@138 in TSS. I think it was even the old Q trim not even a GTQ.

 

[Kip]

There are 66mm stock appearing turbos out there. I also tried that on my old setup for one time out. Pretty sure one could get that in mid 10s with a good setup.

Been there and done that. Went mid tens years ago with a 64 in TSS. Others have also. Lots of new parts and knowledge out there to make doing it even easier today.
PS. I think Dday said some thing to you in the THS section, hope you got a chance to see it.

Take care, Kip

 

[TurboDave]

Ya'll want "the fewest rules" I STILL contend that index racing is the best way to go!!! No I don't mean bracket racing, I mean index'd.

Screw the rules.

You either run the number or you go home. As simple as it gets.

NO BOX, Index racing, nuff said.

 

[Sydwyndr]

Good idea but you've just shot a buch of stock guys out with the 109 rule Clint. Change that to a stock RWD 3.8 block and you've just added a lot of other cars.

I think Gary is trying to simplify the rules so more cars can run. By limiting it to just 109 blocks that means a bunch of cars are excluded or owners will have to buy 109's and build a new engine.

The problem is try to "over rule" a class as it were. Just add it must have a "stock appearing bolt-on inlet bell" on the turbo. Something very simple and no I dont think Garys intent is even a mid 10'second class. Im thinking his intent is mid-low 11 second class. Some of the class rules now make them appear to be more stringent than even an NHRA stock eliminator class. The less rules the better. 4-5 simple rules and run what ya brung...

We may try one in NC with Shanes rules:

Weight (3400 - 3450)
Buick Regal (I wouldnt care if TTA)
109
Small Journal turbo
SLIC

Thats it!!

That would encompass LOTS of cars currently on the street