what about TST (True Street Turbo) class?

[TurboDave]

But they already have index racing, so why are you even in here?? If you like index racing so much, do it...There's nothing wrong with it I have done it a couple times myself at the local track, I like it but it's no where near as exciting as heads up.

As I recall, there were no index classes in the first tb.com event. and last years event had two indexes. Not exactly a good representation of index racing.

But if you don't want me or my ideas here, then fine. I'll leave ya'll to your wrangling.

Bye.

 

[Sydwyndr]

As I recall, there were no index classes in the first tb.com event. and last years event had two indexes. Not exactly a good representation of index racing.

But if you don't want me or my ideas here, then fine. I'll leave ya'll to your wrangling.

Bye.

Negative, there has always been index racing since day one. 8.49, 7.49, and 6.99..... We just havent gotten enough interest in it because lots of folks do not understand the concept.

Im just trying to understand why everyone is so caught up on having strict rules?? Some of you really think that there is going to be a fully tubbed car or narrowed with a 9" ford rearend even try to run this class??

Simple rules and not even sure about the SLIC personally:

1. 3400 lbs min
2. regal or tta (shouldn't matter if factory vin 7 car or not)
3. V6 no stage blocks
4. 62 or smaller turbo (small journal)...
5. Current license and reg. for the street

 

[Slow91z]

As I recall, there were no index classes in the first tb.com event. and last years event had two indexes. Not exactly a good representation of index racing.

But if you don't want me or my ideas here, then fine. I'll leave ya'll to your wrangling.

Bye.

I'm all for new ideas on how to keep heads up racing going, this thread is about a new heads up class...If the only thing you have to contribute is index is the way to go then you are not bringing any new ideas to the table...You like index racing, we get it, we got it several threads ago.

 

[Slow91z]

Negative, there has always been index racing since day one. 8.49, 7.49, and 6.99..... We just havent gotten enough interest in it because lots of folks do not understand the concept.

Im just trying to understand why everyone is so caught up on having strict rules?? Some of you really think that there is going to be a fully tubbed car or narrowed with a 9" ford rearend even try to run this class??

Simple rules and not even sure about the SLIC personally:

1. 3400 lbs min
2. regal or tta (shouldn't matter if factory vin 7 car or not)
3. V6 no stage blocks
4. 62 or smaller turbo (small journal)...
5. Current license and reg. for the street

Yes I do think that someone will show up with a ringer, if you have a heads up class that people are interested in someone is going to show up with a car that will blast every common guy out of the water...Unless you have rules to prevent it...The point of the rules isn't to keep people's cars out it's to keep one of those cars from going WAY faster than everyone else's.

I know some people don't want to build a car to fit the rules, that's what index racing is for, but a heads up class with no rules won't work...At least not for long.

 

[charlief1]

Negative, there has always been index racing since day one. 8.49, 7.49, and 6.99..... We just havent gotten enough interest in it because lots of folks do not understand the concept.

Im just trying to understand why everyone is so caught up on having strict rules?? Some of you really think that there is going to be a fully tubbed car or narrowed with a 9" ford rearend even try to run this class??

Simple rules and not even sure about the SLIC personally:

1. 3400 lbs min
2. regal or tta (shouldn't matter if factory vin 7 car or not)
3. V6 stock block no stage or TA blocks
4. 62 or smaller turbo (small journal)...
5. Current license and reg. for the street

Added one thing for you Clint. The TA block isn't stage so it would technically fit

 

[KevinB]

Why 3400 lbs? You realize how much someone has to do to get car and driver at 3400?

 

[salvageV6]

3700 lbs. min. with driver.

Everyone gets on the scales.

Good photo op. anyway. :biggrin:

 

[jetmech]

So your saying someone is going to show up with a full tube chassis car, tubbed out, put a small motor and turbo in it to win a couple hundred bucks. I dout someone will waste there time to do something like that. If everyone has to weigh a minimum weight and is turbo restricted who cares who shows up. Were doing this for fun and hopefully a large field of cars. Going rounds(more than 1) is what i would call fun.

Yes I do think that someone will show up with a ringer, if you have a heads up class that people are interested in someone is going to show up with a car that will blast every common guy out of the water...Unless you have rules to prevent it...The point of the rules isn't to keep people's cars out it's to keep one of those cars from going WAY faster than everyone else's.

I know some people don't want to build a car to fit the rules, that's what index racing is for, but a heads up class with no rules won't work...At least not for long.

 

[SGRIM]

We ARE running a class like this at the 2012 TurboBuick.com Nationals! Like I said this is one of 2 new classes I want to bring out... It was wierd that Gary posted this thread just days after Clint and I discussed it...

Rules are going to be very simple and clean. That way the apply to as many cars as possible... Sure someone will excel but that is any class...

 

[Slow91z]

So your saying someone is going to show up with a full tube chassis car, tubbed out, put a small motor and turbo in it to win a couple hundred bucks. I dout someone will waste there time to do something like that. If everyone has to weigh a minimum weight and is turbo restricted who cares who shows up. Were doing this for fun and hopefully a large field of cars. Going rounds(more than 1) is what i would call fun.

You guys are missing the point, but yes someone will show up with a serious race car if the class sticks around long enough...Why wouldn't a mid pack TSM guy throw a smaller turbo and intercooler on his car and come collect a check?? If you have no rules then the biggest budget will truly win, the more rules there are the less chance someone has to buy a win.

I'll use TSA as an example, you can't buy a 10 second pass in that class or someone would have already. If it happens it'll be because someone put the time, effort, and ingenuity into making it happen.

These are just my opinions and if you guys can get people to show up rock on and get it done, I'll watch.

 

[TurboDave]

I'm all for new ideas on how to keep heads up racing going, this thread is about a new heads up class...If the only thing you have to contribute is index is the way to go then you are not bringing any new ideas to the table...You like index racing, we get it, we got it several threads ago.

BTW, why are you harrasing me on this. The point a lot of folks are trying to make is look at the turnout in the present heads up classes. There isn't any! You're a THS racer aren't you? Ever tried running on an index, I doubt you have. A lot more closed minded people need to try it. It would likely catch on.

I'll stick to my guns, you can stick to yours. Just because I can't field a 10 second car certainly doesn't make me or my ideas inferior to yours.

Step out of your cozy box, try something new for a change.

OK, I've had my say. We'll agree to disagree.

 

[Slow91z]

BTW, why are you harrasing me on this. The point a lot of folks are trying to make is look at the turnout in the present heads up classes. There isn't any! You're a THS racer aren't you? Ever tried running on an index, I doubt you have. A lot more closed minded people need to try it. It would likely catch on.

I'll stick to my guns, you can stick to yours. Just because I can't field a 10 second car certainly doesn't make me or my ideas inferior to yours.

Step out of your cozy box, try something new for a change.

OK, I've had my say. We'll agree to disagree.

Didn't know I was harassing you, this thread is about heads up racing, I simply pointed out that saying index racing is the best isn't going to help out heads up classes and it CERTAINLY won't help out the people trying to start a NEW class...If you have any new ideas that will bring more people into the heads up classes I'm 100% sure we would all like to hear them.

I've attended all the THS races my budget allows (read: 2, lol) and as I stated earlier I have done the index thing here at a local track and it's ok, but it's not my thing...I will probably do it again sometime, but I can guarantee I won't drag my car to a Buick race to run Index.

 

[TurboDave]

, but I can guarantee I won't drag my car to a Buick race to run Index.

Not even for the payout?

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly against another "class", but the point was well made that there are just too many, and their car count is WAY down. I think that's why this discussion started. Get something going with extremely simple rules that better fit the masses.
TSO, TSM, and THS street are more for a small group of racers, and the encyclopedia sized rules for those classes pretty much makes it evident that the rules in those particular classes are written specifically for a very small and elite group. I don't care what any body says, IMHO, those particular sets of rules are not written for inclusion, but rather exclusion.



I'm also pretty sure, and I could be wrong, that the OP brought this up for a new class for TB.com nats and not a broad generalization, since we're on tb.com.

We're all more than welcome to participate in this discussion and bring our own ideas to the board. You're just as welcome as I. But I would hope to see you at the TB.com nats supporting the board, the race, or whatever, but just show up and participate/support.

 

[Slow91z]

Not even for the payout?

Yeah cuz I'm gonna make a bunch of money racing Buick's...Payouts are nice, because you get something back for your effort...Do well and get your trip money back, or maybe just your gas, but payouts aren't why we race.

 

[bison]

Heads up racing is exciting for about a year as racers figure out what works. After that it is not too exciting imo. Limit to a t31 or 57 turbine and someone will get 10.50 out of it eventually. It takes ideas, r&d, and $$$ to get it done.

 

[turb0buick57]

Just an idea in my head, but if looking to ad a heads up class for high 10s/ low 11s combos with low rules, emphasis to fit as many street cars as possible..

why not have a minimum e.t for that class? For instance 10.70..(just throwing that out there)....heads up racing but if you break out your dq. Could even have a similar lower 11s class to bring in more racers. And if you outgrow the 11s class it wouldnt be hard to commit to running the high 10s class the next year.
Seems like most are trying to build combos to reach personal e.t. goals and not to fit within a specific class, so why not use that as an advantage to getting more people to race.

You could limit it to street registered, weight, drag radials, 3.8 block, etc but with a fast allowable e.t. limit I dont think a lot of the rules would be necessary. And with it being heads up, very similar E.Ts the entire class would probably be exciting to watch?

 

[KevinB]

Just an idea in my head, but if looking to ad a heads up class for high 10s/ low 11s combos with low rules, emphasis to fit as many street cars as possible..

why not have a minimum e.t for that class? For instance 10.70..(just throwing that out there)....heads up racing but if you break out your dq. Could even have a similar lower 11s class to bring in more racers. And if you outgrow the 11s class it wouldnt be hard to commit to running the high 10s class the next year.
Seems like most are trying to build combos to reach personal e.t. goals and not to fit within a specific class, so why not use that as an advantage to getting more people to race.

You could limit it to street registered, weight, drag radials, 3.8 block, etc but with a fast allowable e.t. limit I dont think a lot of the rules would be necessary. And with it being heads up, very similar E.Ts the entire class would probably be exciting to watch?

Thats what index racing is....what you just explained.

 

[bad V6]

Im just trying to understand why everyone is so caught up on having strict rules?? Some of you really think that there is going to be a fully tubbed car or narrowed with a 9" ford rearend even try to run this class??

And you think that noone racing one of the other heads up classes, running in the middle to slow end of the pack and could have a guaranteed pay day by swapping on a smaller turbo, wouldn't steal the show!

There are lots of cars out there that aren't competing for one reason or another, another class isn't going to make things better. These cars could already be racing in a bracket class which would be alot easier for the racers you are trying to establish this new class for.

 

[charlief1]

Seems like most are trying to build combos to reach personal e.t. goals and not to fit within a specific class, so why not use that as an advantage to getting more people to race.

You could limit it to street registered, weight, drag radials, 3.8 block, etc but with a fast allowable e.t. limit I dont think a lot of the rules would be necessary. And with it being heads up, very similar E.Ts the entire class would probably be exciting to watch?

My car will never fit in any of the rules for a particular class. I'm building that way because I looked at all the rules and there's now way anthing earlier than an 84 would make it. I know I've griped several times about this and Scott W is adjusting some of the rules for the TSR class so more cars can run. Making rulse is a good thing but there has to be some way to include more cars and still have fun.:smile:

 

[TurboDave]

Thats what index racing is....what you just explained.

I was going to say that, but I knew Collin would be all over me like white on rice!!!