Does there have to be knock (detonation ) to push a head gasket?? Im just asking the question!! Suscribed Mike
Nope. plenty of other things will do it also
Need someone to weld my heads to the block
- Thread starter Phoneguy
- Start date
Nope. plenty of other things will do it also
Phoneguy
Cometic HG stress tester
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2002
Yes they were and still are recommended by RPE.
Before anybody gets any crazy ideas here... I AM NOT IN ANY WAY PLACING BLAME ON RPE !! I went with an RPE motor for a reason, he builds the best motors out there. I would do it again today without hesitation if I needed another motor.
I am just learning about these motors, their likes and dislikes. It just seems like Murphy follows me, what can go wrong with these motors DOES go wrong with mine. Money willing, I WILL get this right.
Bryan
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2006
Have you pressure tested the coolant system?
How bad are you pushing out coolant? Do you loose a small or large amount? What lb cap? Sure the cap gasket is good and it's getting a good seal? Just want cover all bases.
Would be curious to see coolant pressure log as well.
I just got my car back together. The exact same combo as everyone here with the exception of the stock ecm and tpro. So far so good but no hard hammering yet. Just little hits here and there. I'm going to work my way back up to 25psi.
How bad are you pushing out coolant? Do you loose a small or large amount? What lb cap? Sure the cap gasket is good and it's getting a good seal? Just want cover all bases.
Would be curious to see coolant pressure log as well.
I just got my car back together. The exact same combo as everyone here with the exception of the stock ecm and tpro. So far so good but no hard hammering yet. Just little hits here and there. I'm going to work my way back up to 25psi.
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2006
Does there have to be knock (detonation ) to push a head gasket?? Im just asking the question!! Suscribed Mike
Leaking coolant or combustion is different than blowing out the gasket. There can surly be a few different thing that can effect sealing.
IMO If the surfaces are trued and heads are properly torqued, you would be hard pressed to blow out a cometic. You may even blow the piston before the hg. Those gaskets are tough. The problem is they do not seal well.
I know a guy who glued on his cometics with the stuff RJC uses on their gaskets. Maybe he is ahead the pack here.
It doesn't matter how good a gasket seals. Once the head lifts up and the combustion gases find the path of least resistance, game over. I think phoneguys car is proof...if rpe sealed it up..its done right...period.
I believe all these blown head gaskets are from detonation from being lean because of a lack of alcohol in that cylinder. I would really like to see these cars run without the alcohol with a race gas tune and pushed hard to prove this point. We are going to do it with the car I'm involved with. My own car will be spraying the smallest amount I can just for the cooling properties when I get it together this winter. It will have the same combo all thhese cars have except my dfi instead of xfi. If you think of it, these cars are sequential fuel injected ....a pretty precise means of fuel delivery. The alcohol being sprayed in has no precise control. Most serious fuel injected nitrous cars I've seen have direct port systems on the intakes. I would feel this would be the best way to inject the alcohol. This is all just my theory.
I have had the same problem with my TFS engine. It is DLS built so I too know it is right. Seems when the damn LC-1 screwed up and I blew it the first time there is a little mark on the block. Doesn't appear to be a problem. However it keeps blowing the cometics over and over... At least mine is on the exhaust side so I don't get milk shake
Hope you figure it out!
Hope you figure it out!
This may be a classic case of want more power, but cant keep it together. I had similar problems with my stage 2 motors at 50# of boost. I installed 1/2" head bolts and that got me to over 60# easily but now the problem at 65#seems to be the head/material , it is at its max in its as produced state.
Maybe its time to look at 1/2" head bolts!! Not sure what kind of issues this may get into but Im sure if I had one to look at it could be done fairly easily. I have the plate and tools required to get this done if you want to try it. Mike
Maybe its time to look at 1/2" head bolts!! Not sure what kind of issues this may get into but Im sure if I had one to look at it could be done fairly easily. I have the plate and tools required to get this done if you want to try it. Mike
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2006
Your may be right Kev, that would explain #1 and #2 going lean.
Maybe it's time to bring a direct port system to the market.
Julio? I know your watching.
WDYT?Your may be right Kev, that would explain #1 and #2 going lean.
Maybe it's time to bring a direct port system to the market.
Julio? I know your watching.
Just throwing my 2 cents in...From what Julio has said (no personal testing) the alky basically vaporizes as soon as it hits the warm air in the pipe...If that's the case I would think that it will go to each cylinder however evenly the air is flowing.
I would personally be looking in another direction for the problem.
JMO no cold hard facts to back it up.
Not sure how that could be tested. I wonder if there is too much alchy, the alchy has problems vaporizing. Seems like some cars run great with no issues and some have a bunch of problems. Yours and Roberts car definitely have the combo working...thats for sure. I can't wait until next year when my car hits the track again with my alcky control system on it. Plan on going to the track a lot and hopefully learn a thing or two...hopefully not from breaking sh!t though lol.
I could buy the alky theory if every car was leaning #1 and #2 but on a c16 fueled car? IDK
Other thing that raises a red flag, why are these fast systems not seeing knock? You would think with this kind of damage knock would be eminent.
You dont always have detonation when you melt an engine. Ive datalogged detonation on XFI when leaning a cylinder. If you making any power an detoante a little forget it. Its toast.
+1
If you're not having some kind of knock issue, it could be the fasteners. The fastener is what hold the head down, with only eight head bolts/studs we don't have enuff clamping force to hold the heads down under high cylinder pressures. Buick recgonized this years ago and that's why we had the stage 2 stuff with 14 bolts.
Blown V6 is correct, go 1/2" or call ARP and have a set of L19 head studs made in 7/16. The standard 8740 studs or bolts ARP sells stretch. Or better yet call A1 and have them build you a set of studs. In my opinion A1 is the superior fastener. Main goal is to keep the head locked down but no matter what kind/brand of fastener you have Detonation will still kick them gaskets out.
Buy a MSD knock alert , sometimes the stock esc or fast systems won't pick up the knock signal quick enuff. Using something else as a backup or secondary knock gauge to monitor could show detonation when your primary knock retard system doesnt.
Blown V6 is correct, go 1/2" or call ARP and have a set of L19 head studs made in 7/16. The standard 8740 studs or bolts ARP sells stretch. Or better yet call A1 and have them build you a set of studs. In my opinion A1 is the superior fastener. Main goal is to keep the head locked down but no matter what kind/brand of fastener you have Detonation will still kick them gaskets out.
Buy a MSD knock alert , sometimes the stock esc or fast systems won't pick up the knock signal quick enuff. Using something else as a backup or secondary knock gauge to monitor could show detonation when your primary knock retard system doesnt.
Not sure how to test either.
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2006
Not to question you, but your saying temps in the combustion chambers are melting down metal but not pre igniting the fuel?
Now I have something to think about.
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2006
Good point. I was thinking that too but like Kevin mentioned, when running dual nozzle alky, maybe some of the meth is making it in wet. I don't know if thats a possibility or not.
jasjamz
THS Racer
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2004
I think that with the nozzles in the up pipe and using 7-8 on the Razor kit you can only drop the intake air temp so far in that short distance. Any more meth will stay a liquid and just drop the A/F. I have played around with my car to the point it would bog due to too much alky. It didnt knock, but it did bog. Cold air didnt make it bog, the raw meth and fuel did.
Not to question you, but your saying temps in the combustion chambers are melting down metal but not pre igniting the fuel?
Now I have something to think about.
We had the electrodes melt off the plugs. It got that hot. Check out what it did to the block.
